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Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
Some Roman military decoration like the belt plate in the attached document appears to be partially tinned. Could someone explain me how this can be technically achieved? How do you partially tin a metal surface?
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Sextus Saturninus - 11-23-2014
This belt plate appears to have been tinned and then engraved. Therefore, It was totally tinned but the maker of the plates then engraved it. It looks like the maker either engraved it to show the brass or inlaid the engravings with gold. Either way, it looks like it was an officer's plate - maybe for a Centurion. Beautiful plates, where were they found?
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Dan Howard - 11-23-2014
Tin can be applied simply by holding it near the decoration and melting it with a heated bit - like a soldering iron. Jeffrey Hildebrandt used the technique as an experiment on this bracelet.
![[Image: 8468756786_4a57534608.jpg]](http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8468756786_4a57534608.jpg)
It took a long time and was hard to apply precisely. We ended up using aluiminium leaf on the final project because it was a lot faster and easier. The other bands are 24 carat gold leaf and blue ceramit enamel.
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Sextus Saturninus - 11-23-2014
That is a beautiful bracelet
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
This plate is found in Vindonissa and is shown in the Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa by Christoph Unz and Eckhard Deschler-Erb. It`s number 952. The plate was made from copper alloy and tinned; there was no gold.
Based on the drawing in the above mentioned book, the plate is very thin which makes it difficult to "engrave" some material away. The sword scabbard in the attached document is also partially tinned and the one here too. Click on the image to enlarge and see the body and shield of the figure on the bottom. The parts without tin do not appear to be engraved. I hope some metal workers know the trick.
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Dan Howard - 11-23-2014
Jeff does fine work - and that bracelet was just an experiment to work out the various decoration styles we were going to use on Agamemnon's cuirass. The armour is the real beauty.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/19-greek-military-history-a-archaeology/322745-agamemnon-s-armour.html#353304
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Sextus Saturninus - 11-23-2014
You are 100% right!!! Who made the armor? The same person who made the bracelet ? The armor is extremely intricate and looks like it was meant for a Mycenaean king!!!
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
That is a nice piece of work, Dan! Seems difficult.
Quote:This belt plate appears to have been tinned and then engraved. Therefore, It was totally tinned but the maker of the plates then engraved it. It looks like the maker either engraved it to show the brass or inlaid the engravings with gold. Either way, it looks like it was an officer's plate - maybe for a Centurion. Beautiful plates, where were they found?This plate is found in Vindonissa and is shown in the Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa by Christoph Unz and Eckhard Deschler-Erb. It`s number 952. The plate was made from copper alloy and tinned; there was no gold.
Based on the drawing in the above mentioned book, the plate is very thin which makes it difficult to "engrave" some material away. The sword scabbard in the attached document is also partially tinned and the one here too. Click on the image to enlarge and see the body and shield of the figure on the bottom. The parts without tin do not appear to be engraved.
Quote:Tin can be applied simply by holding it near the decoration and melting it with a heated bit - like a soldering iron.Do you mean that you use a soldering iron to melt the tin and move it to the parts that need to be tinned? Doesn`t this leave a thick layer of tin or gives it a very thin layer as seen on the sword scabbards and belt plate?
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Dan Howard - 11-23-2014
Quote:You are 100% right!!! Who made the armor? The same person who made the bracelet ? The armor is extremely intricate and looks like it was meant for a Mycenaean king!!!Jeffrey Hildebrandt - Royal Oak Armoury
http://www.royaloakarmoury.com/
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
That is a nice piece of work, Dan! Seems difficult.
Quote:This belt plate appears to have been tinned and then engraved. Therefore, It was totally tinned but the maker of the plates then engraved it. It looks like the maker either engraved it to show the brass or inlaid the engravings with gold. Either way, it looks like it was an officer's plate - maybe for a Centurion. Beautiful plates, where were they found?This plate is found in Vindonissa and is shown in the Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa by Christoph Unz and Eckhard Deschler-Erb. It`s number 952. The plate was made from copper alloy and tinned; there was no gold.
Based on the drawing in the above mentioned book, the plate is very thin which makes it difficult to "engrave" some material away. The sword scabbard in the attached document is also partially tinned and the one here too. Click on the image to enlarge and see the body and shield of the figure on the bottom. The parts without tin do not appear to be engraved.
Quote:Tin can be applied simply by holding it near the decoration and melting it with a heated bit - like a soldering iron.Do you mean that you use a soldering iron to melt the tin and move it to the parts that need to be tinned? Doesn`t this leave a thick layer of tin or gives it a very thin layer as seen on the sword scabbards and belt plate?
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Dan Howard - 11-23-2014
Quote:Do you mean that you use a soldering iron to melt the tin and move it to the parts that need to be tinned?Yes.
Quote:Doesn`t this leave a thick layer of tin or gives it a very thin layer as seen on the sword scabbards and belt plate?Yes it leaves a thick layer. You'd have to ask Jeff for more details. He posts on this forum.
Thinner decoration was probably done by dipping the entire item in molten tin and then removing the sections that aren't to be covered in tin.
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Crispianus - 11-23-2014
I think its basically a case of juggling the different property's of the metals, an alloy that has a high enough melting point that it can be mercury gilded, the detail can be punched in after... assuming that what your looking at is actually tin.... its possible to apply tin to select areas with the right kind of soldering iron and I don't mean electric but a heated copper bit, sometimes its best to use a "Hot plate" to heat the work as well... in some cases its a necessity....
Although I think the description for the plate in question should be "Tinned" or "silvered" and partially gilded....
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Sextus Saturninus - 11-23-2014
The Pompeii sword scabbard is very nice. I have not seen that design on a Pompeii gladius yet... maybe I will make some plates like those for my SDK 1171 that is in line for mods. Those would look really nice on the SDK.
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
Quote:Thinner decoration was probably done by dipping the entire item in molten tin and then removing the sections that aren't to be covered in tin.
I have got some nice results with dipping. I dip my item in flux and then dip it in molten tin. I use the centripetal force to remove most of the tin and then allow it to cool. If desired the item can be heaten again with flux added so that the tin melts again. The last excess tin can now be removed with a piece of fabric. No problem so far, but how can I "remove the sections that aren`t to be covered in tin"?
According to the book "Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa" the plate has been tinned; no closer description is given.
Quote:its possible to apply tin to select areas with the right kind of soldering iron and I don't mean electric but a heated copper bit, sometimes its best to use a "Hot plate" to heat the work as wellWhat is the difference between an electric soldering iron and a heated copper bit in the case of partially tinning something? What is a "Hot plate" and why is this preferred?
Partially tinning metal surfaces - Latinitas - 11-23-2014
According to the book "Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa" the plate has been tinned; no closer description is given.
Quote:Thinner decoration was probably done by dipping the entire item in molten tin and then removing the sections that aren't to be covered in tin.
I have got some nice results with dipping. I dip my item in flux and then dip it in molten tin. I use the centripetal force to remove most of the tin and then allow it to cool. If desired the item can be heaten again with flux added so that the tin melts again. The last excess tin can now be removed with a piece of fabric. No problem so far, but how can I "remove the sections that aren`t to be covered in tin"?
Quote:its possible to apply tin to select areas with the right kind of soldering iron and I don't mean electric but a heated copper bit, sometimes its best to use a "Hot plate" to heat the work as wellWhat is the difference between an electric soldering iron and a heated copper bit in the case of partially tinning something? What is a "Hot plate" and why is this preferred?