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+--- Thread: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? (/showthread.php?tid=27034)
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Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - LonginusXXI - 04-12-2016
Check title.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Hasdrubal - 04-13-2016
Wasn't it used by the cavalry?
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - LonginusXXI - 04-13-2016
(04-13-2016, 01:58 AM)Hasdrubal Wrote: Wasn't it used by the cavalry?
I'm talking about the ones legionaries used in the Roman Republic.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Robert Vermaat - 04-13-2016
Legions? I'm pretty sure the auxilia used them?
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - scamander - 04-13-2016
Auxilia generally used the oval scutum, whereas the rectangular ones were for legionaries. I did a short vlog on scuta from both periods. You can watch it here:
Vlog on scutum
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - LonginusXXI - 04-13-2016
(04-13-2016, 11:36 AM)scamander Wrote: Auxilia generally used the oval scutum, whereas the rectangular ones were for legionaries. I did a short vlog on scuta from both periods. You can watch it here:
Vlog on scutum
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - 66kbm - 04-13-2016
Have you checked out the "Arch of Orange" in France?.....Leg II avg.
Or the Caerleon cover?
Both 1st cent as far as I know.
Who can actually say...who used what? Often its only the context the finds where discovered in that give an idea that X unit at that time were using X item. And we find very little really compared to the amount of equipment being used.
Kevin
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Hasdrubal - 04-13-2016
(04-13-2016, 11:36 AM)scamander Wrote: Auxilia generally used the oval scutum, whereas the rectangular ones were for legionaries. I did a short vlog on scuta from both periods. You can watch it here:
Vlog on scutum
In first century didn't the legions mainly use the Augustan scutum? Square didn't come more into play until the beginning of 2nd century and late 1st century, I believe.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - scamander - 04-13-2016
(04-13-2016, 05:04 PM)Hasdrubal Wrote:(04-13-2016, 11:36 AM)scamander Wrote: Auxilia generally used the oval scutum, whereas the rectangular ones were for legionaries. I did a short vlog on scuta from both periods. You can watch it here:
Vlog on scutum
In first century didn't the legions mainly use the Augustan scutum? Square didn't come more into play until the beginning of 2nd century and late 1st century, I believe.
Hi Hasdrubal,
I always thought the rectangular scutum for legionaries appeared in the early 1st century AD or thereabouts. Kevin does make a good point though, it's tricky to really stick a decisive figure due to the evidence we have. What we are left with is careful guesswork (or at least I am!).
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Hasdrubal - 04-13-2016
Oh I concur. I just thought during early 1st century up to middle the Augustan scutum was more in play along with the Republican scutum. The Romans then started using the more known square scutum during mid to late 1st century. At least that's what I thought. In the end we have very little to go off of especially since it was over 2000 years ago.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - caiusbeerquitius - 04-14-2016
1st: There was no norm.
2nd: There was no norm.
As far as actual finds are concerned: even during the 1st and 2nd century oval shields seem to have been much more common among auxiliaries AND legionaries than the rectangular ones. What makes many people think (!) that the rectangular shield was the most common shield among legionaries in the 1st and second century are the reliefs on Trajan´s column and their over-representation in literature and historic and archaeological investigation of past times. It had been suggested a while ago that mainly the first cohorts of legions used rectangular shields, as they much more often were doing siege works and sieges etc., where the rectangular shields are an advantage (testudo, e.g.). In an open fight the oval shields certainly offer better protection and seem to have been the favored choice of the soldiers. However, these things do not find their way into paintings, computer games and so on, unfortunately.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Gunthamund Hasding - 04-15-2016
Christian, maybe just a stupid idea, maybe they had 2 scuta?: one for sieges and one for open fight? I know is not so easy to carry one with you at 8-10 kg per piece but maybe not all but a part had also the rectangular ones, on the column probably rectangular for leg and oval for aux is just a convention so that everybody can distinguish between both, Not sure about Adamclisi I think is more mixed there
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - caiusbeerquitius - 04-15-2016
First, the shields were not that heavy. Proper reconstructions show a weight between 4,5 and 5,5 kg.
Second, we have no hint whatsoever to the soldiers having two shields, so I think: no.
It may also have been the case that some legions had rectangular shields, other oval ones. We now know that the legions were very distinctive from each other.
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - LonginusXXI - 04-15-2016
(04-15-2016, 07:48 AM)caiusbeerquitius Wrote: First, the shields were not that heavy. Proper reconstructions show a weight between 4,5 and 5,5 kg.
Second, we have no hint whatsoever to the soldiers having two shields, so I think: no.
It may also have been the case that some legions had rectangular shields, other oval ones. We now know that the legions were very distinctive from each other.
So the legionaries would have flat oval shields or would they have curved oval ones?
RE: Oval Scutum in use 1st Century A.D.? - Bryan - 04-15-2016
(04-15-2016, 07:48 AM)caiusbeerquitius Wrote: First, the shields were not that heavy. Proper reconstructions show a weight between 4,5 and 5,5 kg.
Second, we have no hint whatsoever to the soldiers having two shields, so I think: no.
It may also have been the case that some legions had rectangular shields, other oval ones. We now know that the legions were very distinctive from each other.
Do the reconstruction weights represent the Fayum and Polybius described scuta?