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3rd century auxilia - Printable Version

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3rd century auxilia - Marcus Mummius - 05-12-2005

Salvete,

Does someone know of a good website about 3rd century Roman soldiers?

I'm trying to find information about a 3rd century auxilia impression.

-What kind of shield would they have worn? Dished, flat? Round, oval?

-Are there any know shield designs for this period? If so, where can I find them?

-What kind of spatha would a 3rd century auxilia soldier have carried? Anyone has drawings of sword dimensions, hilts and scabbards?

-Does anyone have information about the military clothing around that time?

-What kind of spear did they use?

-Where can one buy a decent rivetted mail?

Sorry about the vast amount of questions asked. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Valete

Re: 3rd century auxilia - FAVENTIANVS - 05-12-2005

Try this:[url:2ffx1w12]http://www.quintagallorum.co.uk/[/url]

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-15-2005

Hi,

I don't even know where to start answering your questions. Could you perhaps be a little more specific with a couple of them Big Grin

The first thing I would recommend you try is try and get hold of "Roman Military Equipment" by Bishop & Coulston, and if you can "Excavations at Dura- Europos 1928 -1937 Final Report V11". That should give you an excellent start on the shields, spears and swords. There are scale drawings and a few colour photographs.

I also found Osprey's "Imperial Roman Legionary AD 161-284", Windrow and Mcbride's "Imperial Rome at War" and Stephenson's "Roman Infantry Equipment" very helpful, particularly with the soft kit. Arbeia Fort has a web site with a few pictures.

I got my hardened riveted mail from Armourclass in Scotland.

http://www.armourclass.co.uk/

Not perfect historically, but the ring size is good and it is very strong. Our shields are oval, planked, covered in linen and edged in rawhide.

Hope this helps a bit?

Andrew Cohors Quinta Gallorum

[Image: QU230426.jpg]

thanks - Marcus Mummius - 05-15-2005

Thanks guys!

Andrew, I thought a roman mail was always made with alternating rows of rivetted and massive rows, is this indeed so?

Best regards,
Marcus

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-15-2005

Hi Marcus,

Yes I know, that is what I meant by not historically perfect. They should indeed be alternating rows of solid rings and riveted rings.

I believe a couple of Indian companies now do Roman hamata, but I have not seen any as yet. Or indeed heard anything about how good it is. Riveted in my opinion is better than butted if it is going to see any hard use.

Andrew

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Marcus Mummius - 05-15-2005

Ok thanks!

What ringsize would be best in your opinion? Would an interior ringsize of 6mm be ok?

Vale

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-15-2005

IMHO you can use rings with an outer diameter of anywhere between 3mm and 10mm. Therefore 6mm internal diameter rings will be fine. We do have small patches of 4mm rings at the museum, butted admittedly, which look mighty fine. I dread to think though how much a suit would cost.

Andrew

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Marcus Mummius - 05-15-2005

And it would be very heavy too I think!

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-15-2005

Yes it no doubt would be heavier, but the wire gauge on the smaller rings would be less, keeping the weight to an acceptable level.

Most of my scale drawings are from the museum or my books, but I do have this one of a spatha and baldric. The sword and scabbard are different to mine, but baldric is pretty much the same. The only difference is I do not wrap the baldric around the scabbard. It simply passes through the slide. It does not seem to move very far, and so far the slide is holding. The slide has two tabs, which insert into the scabbard, and whole thing is tied on with leather. The leather was wet when originally tied round. As it dries it tightens. The leather is protected from getting wet again with beeswax, boot polish or dubbin - in my case beeswax and dubbin.

[Image: Balteus.jpg]

Oh and Mathew Amts Legio XX site has some good drawings of the Thorsberg trousers which mine are based on.

Andrew

Re: 3rd century auxilia - aitor iriarte - 05-16-2005

On his book about the Dura finds, Simon James discloses the criss-crossin of the baldric strap over the scabbard as a modern invention, which I think is sensible, because no such criss-cross appears on third century tombstones ande the surviving baltei have that section damaged... :roll:

Aitor

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-16-2005

Hi Aitor,

While I agree with you and Simon James that is the case for most slides, the dolphin type slide seems to suggest there was at least another way of attaching the scabbard to the baldric.

[Image: RBCT4.jpg]

Andrew

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Theodosius the Great - 05-16-2005

Hi Andrew,

In the picture you posted, is the baldric all one piece ?
I'm a little confused as to how it can fit in that little ring and wrap around the scabbard. :? Does the baldric get narrower to allow it to do so ?

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-16-2005

Mine is in two pieces-sewn together, a wide piece tapering at the back, and a narrow piece made of thinner leather. It could though be all in one piece I guess as long as it got thin enough at the back end.

Re: 3rd century auxilia - aitor iriarte - 05-17-2005

Andrew,
Is that dolphin scabbard-runner a replica? Now I'm out of place but I cannot remember that double slit as a common feature... :?:

Aitor

Re: 3rd century auxilia - Sassanid - 05-17-2005

Morning,

The one shown is a replica, and not a very good one at that - but from what I have seen the double slit seems to be common to the type. Personally I have seen pictures/drawings of three originals, all slightly different, but with the same feature.

1: South Shields (replica shown), UK 2: Corbridge, UK 3: Jagshausen, Germany. I note none seem to have been found at Dura.

As I mentioned in the previous thread I am not actually disagreeing with you or Simon James. The tombstones and Sassanian rock sculptures indeed back your view. The dolphin slides just intrigued me, and to my mind seem suggest there was at least another way of attaching the baldric to the scabbard.

Andrew