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+--- Thread: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei (/showthread.php?tid=3372)
Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Marcus Mummius - 05-16-2005
Salve,
What kind of shield was the most common for an infantryman in the Roman army, late 4th, early 5th century? Flat or dished? Round or oval?
What kind calcei did a soldier wear around this time? Which type is appropriate for this period?
Thanks in advance,
Valete,
Marcus
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Carlton Bach - 05-16-2005
I am so not going to enter the shield wars
However, as to shoes, the fourth/fifth centuries are already on the other end of the Great Turnshoe Divide, so your most likely footwear will be a turnshoe, not a calceus.
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Robert Vermaat - 05-16-2005
Quote:What kind of shield was the most common for an infantryman in the Roman army, late 4th, early 5th century? Flat or dished? Round or oval?
If anything even existed that we can call 'most common'..
I'd say oval or round, and dished, but I expect flat could be used, too...
So you can't go wrong with either type, I suppose!
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Marcus Mummius - 05-17-2005
So dished is slghtly better than flat? I think oval or round are both ok.
Now about the shoes. What kind did a late roman soldier wear? Did they wear 'turnshoes', if so, what do they look like? Anyone has got a picture?
Best regards,
Marcus
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - aitor iriarte - 05-17-2005
Well, these are mine but they were intended for cavalrymen and/or officers, not for infantrymen.
![[Image: campagi2copia.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tribunus/campagi2copia.jpg)
Shoes for infantrymen where probably studded ones in their majority. I recall some fragmentary ones recovered at Coppergate, York. As far as our knowledge reaches, the kind of shoes in fashion during 4th/5th century were low ones, not boots, like those in vogue until the end of 3rd century (always AD). I have been unable to convince people in my group to be so accurate :evil: and they are wearing 3rd century hobnailed eyelet boots...
Aitor
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Mithras - 05-18-2005
How far have you marched in those leather slippers Aitor? Are they hobnailed in the traditional Roman fashion? Is it feasible that a legion would be shod with those? or with calcei?
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - aitor iriarte - 05-19-2005
Paul,
That kind of shoes, identified with the 'campagi militares' mentioned on Diocletian's price edict are not intended for marches and they were not hobnailed. They are rather showy footwear for late Roman cavalrymen and officers as if for boasting: 'Look, I don't need to walk'!
There were, of course, still hobnailed shoes and, probably, boots but, as I've mentioned in my previous post, the fashion during fourth and fifth centuries was to wear low shoes.
The integral lace going under the instep appears also on the so-called Tetrarchs' statues at Venice but their shoes are heavier (albeit low), soled ones, probably hobaniled, too.
Aitor
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Robert Vermaat - 05-19-2005
Quote:So dished is slghtly better than flat?They offer more protection so yes, I'd say dished is better.
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - FAVENTIANVS - 05-19-2005
These are mine:
![[Image: calcei.JPG]](http://www.geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/calcei.JPG)
Studded.
aitor\'s shoes - GaiusAquiliusBritannicus - 05-25-2005
Aitor,
Why the punched holes around the top right of the shoe? It looks like the leather was punched in preparation for sewing another piece of leather to it (ie, more "practical" hole pattern, than aesthetic).
Just curious. Beautiful shoes.
Britannicus
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - Lucius Aurelius Metellus - 05-25-2005
They appear more as decorative elements for the shoes, IMHO. :wink:
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - aitor iriarte - 05-26-2005
Yes, Gaius, they are purely decorative, like the scalloping along the border, and they reapeat on the other campagus coming from the Deurne find.
And thanks for your kind opinion!
Aitor
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - GaiusAquiliusBritannicus - 05-26-2005
You're welcome! I just call 'em like I see 'em.
The pattern looks like a turn shoe pattern, but I see a seam in the back of the heel...could these be made from one piece or did you try that and it was horrible?
Britannicus
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - FAVENTIANVS - 05-30-2005
Aitor: Why are cavalry carbatinae-calcei not studded?
Re: Late 4th, early 5th century shields and calcei - aitor iriarte - 05-31-2005
OK, OK, guys, I returned home yesterday from TÃ rraco Viva after five hours driving and now I'm again at work and two thirds of my neurones are on strike... :roll:
Gaius,
The campagi could be called turnshoes in the sense that they must be turned out after sewing. I'm using an original late Roman pattern from one of the Deurne find shoes and the back seam is a repeated feature in all the archaeological campagi (Deurne, Vindolanda, Cuijk)
Faventianus,
Mmmhh, I could start lecturing but ... it is easier to say that late Roman cavalry shoes were that way during that period and you should ask the Romans why designed and constructed such flimsy shoes as the campagi are... :wink:
Aitor