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+--- Thread: Padded Armour (/showthread.php?tid=3698)
Re: Padded Armour - Dan Howard - 02-21-2006
Jason Hoffman's experiments seem to indicate that quilted linen offers better protection than the same number of layers glued together. It provides a strong argument against the linothorax or any other textile armour being glued.
Re: Padded Armour - John M McDermott - 02-21-2006
Some look stiff, some look flexible, some look plain weatherbeaten.
Re: Padded Armour - tlclark - 02-21-2006
Quote:Some look stiff, some look flexible, some look plain weatherbeaten.
True. But I think most look to be stiff cloth, rather than leather, a sort of mid-range stiffness like heavy felt or layered cloth.
So we should try multiple techniques.
I am in the middle of deciding to take the plunge and make some tablet woven clavi.
If I do, I'll tackle the woven wool pteruges.
Travis
Re: Padded Armour - John M McDermott - 02-21-2006
Oh I was going in the direction of cloth backed by leather. I am drawn to regard the pteruge as a descendant of the Greek lino-thorax.
Re: Padded Armour - Dan Howard - 02-21-2006
Leather backed armour is bad in terms of sweat and heat exhaustion. It doesn't allow the body to breathe like natural fibre textiles. If a subarmalis made entirely of linen was worn underneath then it would help to mitigate the disadvantages of a leather backing on the armour. However nobody has come up with an explaination as to why they might have used leather might be used? What is wrong with layered textiles? The protection afforded is superior to leather.
Re: Padded Armour - John M McDermott - 02-21-2006
Oh, I don't believe in leather body armor. I was thinking of it just in terms of the pteruges.
Re: Padded Armour - aitor iriarte - 02-22-2006
In the context of this discussion, perhaps we should start forgetting about leather (single or alongside with other layers of different materials) for the pterugae (I've never considered it as a suitable material for the subarmalis' body)
Notwithstanding, which were the upper row(s) of halfround lappets with embossed or applied motives made of? :?
Aitor
Re: Padded Armour - tlclark - 02-22-2006
Quote:In the context of this discussion, perhaps we should start forgetting about leather (single or alongside with other layers of different materials) for the pterugae (I've never considered it as a suitable material for the subarmalis' body)
Notwithstanding, which were the upper row(s) of halfround lappets with embossed or applied motives made of? :?
Aitor
The 'tongue' pteruges are leather IMO.
The other option is fabric with bronze or stucco applique. The problem is that several of these tongue pteruges are shown to be flexible, to the point that even the relief on them is folded/bent or twisted, so the best option is molded leather.
Travis
Re: Padded Armour - aitor iriarte - 02-22-2006
Travis,
And what about the 'hinges'? I don't think that they were true hinges but they are a true puzzle to me... :?
Aitor
Re: Padded Armour - tlclark - 02-22-2006
Quote:Travis,
And what about the 'hinges'? I don't think that they were true hinges but they are a true puzzle to me... :?
Aitor
The 'hinges' are almost always seen with lacing.
Here's a couple examples.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... 3det2a.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... 2det2a.jpg
The second example you can see the lacing more clearly.
I don't have an image that shows this, but on several examples you can actually see the holes that the lacing was intended to pass through.
They appear to be long cylindrical beads meant to prevent the laces from pulling out of the upper row of tongue pteruges. How these work or what they secured, is a mystery to me.
Travis
Re: Padded Armour - Flavius Promotus - 02-22-2006
This post may rather belong to 'reenactment and reconstruction', but I still think the first test results of my 'subarmalis' should be posted here.
I made it of three layers of felt and two layers of linen, which together give this thing a strength of 1,5 cm! I first wanted to make it with 4 (!) layers to reach the almost 2 cm mentioned by the Anonymous Byzantinus, but luckily a friend of mine suggested to first try it with three layers.
I quilted the 'subarmalis' with a strong waxed linen thread (which is usually rather used for heavy leatherwork). A saddler stitch was used.
(Roman leather awl, modern leather needles)
The average distance between the seams is about 6 cm. This measurement is not based on ancient finds (wish we had some
), but was inspired by a guesstimation of the distance between the seams (?) of the subarmales (?) visible on the Arlon-relief.I wanted the design to be as simple as possible, so I constructed it a little like an 'old Roman' tunic: a slit for the head, but no sleeves.
The neckslit had to be enlarged to keep it from exerting unpleasant pressure on the carotis.
The closing system (leather straps running from stitched on heart-shaped leather patches) was taken from a Dura-Europos linen greave liner.
Luckily I have been disciplined enough over the last months to lose 3-4 kilos, or otherwise there would have been real trouble getting into my cuirass (it was already difficult enough!).
[I'm wearing this contraption in the image I've posted on 'show your impression' - no, you can NOT see it :wink: )
The 'subarmalis' made the cool breeze at first very comfortable, but when I came home again (slightly more than 6 hours of walking with a long break in the middle - on the whole ca. 20 km) it was soaked with sweat.
The white areas show where it was still somewhat dry. :lol:
Next summer will be 'fun' :?
The padding vest distributed the weight of the cuirass (plus helmet, shield, lance, sword, dagger, belt, baldric, furca with 5 kg of luggage) rather well, but still I want to add more padding to the shoulders.(outch!)
Re: Padded Armour - John M McDermott - 02-22-2006
Yes, well here's my hemp and wool filler subarmalis. I have had the same experience of comfort and not much sweating.
![[Image: Picture132.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/JohnMcDermott/Picture132.jpg)
Re: Padded Armour - aitor iriarte - 02-22-2006
Good job, Florian!
But, Travis, you're increasingly making me a merrier man!!!
D A lace... OMG! :lol:
It could be intended to link both rows of halfround lappets to the subarmalis or just to make the subarmalis fit tighter att eh hips, exactly where it becomes apparent emerging from under the cuirass... :o
A pity that you haven't got better close-ups of the best examples...
Anyway, you're great!!
Aitor
Re: Padded Armour - arklore70 - 02-22-2006
Travis,
my subarmalis looks very simular to Florian's. If you can send me a good email address I can send you my pics. Once I get a photo bucket account, I will attempt to host/add some of the pictures myself.
Mine is not quite as refined as Florian's.
Mike
Re: Padded Armour - tlclark - 02-22-2006
Quote:Good job, Florian!
But, Travis, you're increasingly making me a merrier man!!!
A lace... OMG! :lol:
It could be intended to link both rows of halfround lappets to the subarmalis or just to make the subarmalis fit tighter att eh hips, exactly where it becomes apparent emerging from under the cuirass... :o
A pity that you haven't got better close-ups of the best examples...
Anyway, you're great!!
Aitor
Thanks!
here's a better view.
![[Image: pteruges_lacing.jpg]](http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/pteruges_lacing.jpg)
You can see how the lace threads through the cylindrical bead or ferule and then back into the tongue pterugion. On many examples they show the holes. I like the idea that these are used to secure the tongue pteruges to each other and the subarmalis.
Also a better detail of the patterning on a pterugion
![[Image: pteruges_pattern.jpg]](http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/pteruges_pattern.jpg)
Notice the diamond weave pattern. This is very similar to a weft faced weave.
Travis