RomanArmyTalk
Animal skins. - Printable Version

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Animal skins. - hoplite14gr - 08-31-2005

Can some body please tell me how to aquire animal skins of the type associated with Roman standards bearers.
Are they real staff or synthetic?
Any known suppliers?
Thanks,
Kind regards
Stefanos

Re: Animal skins. - Robert Vermaat - 08-31-2005

The ones I know from Legio II Augusta (UK) are the real stuff, from real animals who died decades ago, or even longer.
Our fellow-member Cordvs:
[Image: 2004archeon22.jpg]
Tiberius the aquilifer, Scottish John and Martin:
[Image: 2004archeon3.jpg][Image: 2004archeon1.jpg]
Another, from 2001:
[Image: 2.06l.jpg]

Real pelts may be obtained - Neuraleanus - 08-31-2005

Bear and wolf pelts are available from Moscow Hide and Fur:

[url:3l4hzadt]http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/Dressed.html[/url]

Here I am wearing my bear:
[Image: cornucien01.jpg]

I purchased the Idaho black bear pelt (as you can see it's actually brown), including the feet and claws, from them for about $300 USD. Be careful about the laws where you live. I'm told that it is illegal to sell bear pelts in Alaska. Fortunately, where I reside in New York, new pelts are ok.

Pelts and furs - Peroni - 09-02-2005

Terry Nix is now selling pelts, also there is a good supplier here;

http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/Dressed.html

Regards,

Re: Animal skins. - Daniel S Peterson - 09-04-2005

Our first bears came from Moscow H&F over 20 yers ago! Be sure to ask for a "cinnamon" which best replicates the real color of European brown bears. I would warn that although many reenactment groups have signifiers with wolfskins, I do not know of any sculptural evidence to verify this was ever done.

Dan

Re: Animal skins. - Crispvs - 09-05-2005

We tried a few years ago to get hold of a Europen brown bear pelt for our signifer, having heard that the Spanish government was culling them. European Union regulations however, demand that the pelts of these animals must be burned! Therefore we cursed the European Union and the corrupt commission that runs it for the umpteenth time and headed for Canada (I think) where we were fortunate enough to get a brown bear pelt. I am led to believe that the European brown bear is somewhat smaller than the North American brown bear however.

Crispvs

Re: Animal skins. - Daniel S Peterson - 09-05-2005

Technically, what you are getting is a brown phase of the American Black Bear. The "Brown Bear" is another name for the Grizzly and the adult pelt of either would be too large for a signifier, and not commonly for sale anyway.. You should pick a bear in which the skull is roughly the same size as you helmet.

Dan

lion fur - Luca - 09-05-2005

we waited for years for a dead lion in one italian zoo. It finally happened in 2003:

http://www.cisalpina.net/images/Sample5.jpg

now we are selling our old fake lion fur made with authentic camel pelt for 600 euros.

if you would need it, contact us.

Re: Animal skins. - Cacaius - 09-05-2005

Quote:I would warn that although many reenactment groups have signifiers with wolfskins, I do not know of any sculptural evidence to verify this was ever done.

wow!
I have never checked it. But it can be true.
I am always surprised how today's fashion in reenactors world and people's laziness changes history (because they so often copy others achievments thoughtlessly)

Can anyone write something more about those inapproriate wolves in this topic ? So only lions and bears are correct ?

Re: Animal skins. - Tarbicus - 09-06-2005

Quote:So only lions and bears are correct ?
I'd imagine tigers and leopards were also applicable, in light of the paintwork being gone from the sculptures. Anyone disagree or know better?

Cheers.

Re: Animal skins. - Praefectusclassis - 09-06-2005

Quote:Can anyone write something more about those inapproriate wolves in this topic ? So only lions and bears are correct ?

Uhmmm, guys. We do have more sources for Roman history than just sculpture...

Re: Animal skins. - Primvs Pavlvs - 09-08-2005

Quote:Can anyone write something more about those inapproriate wolves in this topic ? So only lions and bears are correct ?

Lions, Tigers and Bears! Oh My! Wait a minute the Romans didn't have any tigers! or Flying Monkeys for that matter :wink:

Re: Animal skins. - aitor iriarte - 09-08-2005

Yes, they had them available indeed! :wink:
Even though I'm far from my books now I can tell you that on the Great Hunt mosaic of the Piazza Armerina villa (Sicily, early fourth century AD) some of the soldiers are depicted as hunting tigers, probably for the Games, like the rest of the animals on the mosaic. Maybe it is some kind of fiction and there is some clearly fictional details on the depiction (One soldier holds a mirror in front of the tiger mum while other snaps the tigercub), but it proves that Romans were acquainted with such exotic animals from distant India, perhaps obtained through commercial links.
In any case, I wouldn't dare to say that tiger skins were everyday available commodities... :roll:

Aitor

Re: Animal skins. - Tarbicus - 09-08-2005

Some examples of more exotic animals in Roman mosaics:

Leopard
[url:xxget8ar]http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/nenning5.jpg[/url]

Tiger
[url:xxget8ar]http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/paula_chabot/arena/pcarena.38.jpg[/url]
[url:xxget8ar]http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/nenning6.jpg[/url]

Rhino
[url:xxget8ar]http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/huntrhino.jpg[/url]

Ostrich?
[url:xxget8ar]http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/paula_chabot/arena/pcarena.40.jpg[/url]

Question is, could their skins have sometimes been used for signifers et al after they were dead?

Cheers.

Re: Animal skins. - Robert Vermaat - 09-08-2005

Quote:..it proves that Romans were acquainted with such exotic animals from distant India, perhaps obtained through commercial links.
Not so distant. Tigers also lived in Turkey (it is said the last (Caspian Tiger) was shot there as late as 1970). Kaplan (tiger) is still a very common name in Turkey.
Between the Amur (Siberian) and the Caspian tiger you also had the Turan tiger species of Kazakhstan.
Leopards/Panthers were common enough in Africa, of course.

And apart from several pink ones :wink: panthers (and tigers) have been spotted running around the English countryside again!