Hoplite Shield Designs - Printable Version

Hoplite Shield Designs - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Hoplite Shield Designs (/showthread.php?tid=4345)

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Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Achilleion - 01-11-2009

Hello,
I'm quite new here and I am thinking of making my own shield, perhaps a deep blue with a trident on the front. I have gotten a lot of inspiration from reading your discussions on making shields, what is historically accurate, and different construction methods. Would a linen covering on the front and back of the shield be accurate? I had originally wanted a bronze or brass covering, but it was just too expensive for me right now, because when you are just 16, your income is limited Smile

Thanks for giving so much information in your discussions! By the way, those shield designs look really great!

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 01-19-2009

To simplify grossly--we don't know what, exactly, was used on the face of shields. The very latest archeology seems to suggest that most shields in the late archaic--the period that interests me--were willow or some such in narrow strips, laminated, and thus had some sort of covering--probably leather or linen. Sorry to be vague, but no one knows, really.

My best guess, though, is that they used layers of linen on the outside, where it would make a strong laminate with a hide glue, and where almost any varnish would seal it and make it waterproof. An interesting further question in what they'd paint it with--my guess is that they used pigment/tempura over a gesso substrate over linen, but that's a GUESS. that's how we make ours in Taxeis Plataea.

I like leather on the inside, though. It's better against your arm and absorbs a little sweat. If you plan to do some marching and perhaps some fighting (come to Marathon, for instance!) than you'll find that leather will earn its keep,a nd pig skin is quite cheap.

Note, however, that despite Hollywood's best efforts, leather before the 18th C. has no shiny side. The "rough" side would be both sides in the processes that most Greeks would have used. It is possible that Athens had vegetable dying for cowhide, but that's not what you want on a shield, anyhow!

Anyway, I'm not the gospel. Other people may chime in with other ideas. but build your shield strongly enough to use--don't make a decorator!

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Dutchhoplite - 01-20-2009

Perhaps you can show all shields of the group together Smile

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 01-20-2009

We have Theron's and Archippos's both sooo close to done--give me a week or so and I'll put up the first 4 together.

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - PMBardunias - 01-25-2009

The boeotian shield as a shield device is not that rare. Some place I have an old reference on the boeotian shield and its use in heraldry- linking it back to the ancient Labrys or double-axe. If you are curious, email me and I'll try to find it for you. I think the current consensus is that the "boeotian" shield never existed and was a construct of artists.

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-25-2009

I have seen that,too. It was an early vase,wasn't it?Say mid 6th century,black figure? Unfortunately I don't think I have a photo of it.

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 01-28-2009

Just to be contrary, and perhaps because I admire your blog so much that I need to argue with you, I think that most academics have reverted to the assumption that something so widely represented is in fact real. But in my usual way, I will build one (pretty high on my priorites) and show the results here. A recent article int he Cambridge Companion has moved me to try, if only because his suggestions on how they were constructed and how they might have devloped alongside the aspis interest me.

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-28-2009

Can you imagine what would have been written about the aspis if there wasn't found any of those,or only the bronze faces? First of all,the assumption that the bronze would be extremely heavy on its own would be one thing,but the same would happen about the wooden core. How can you imagine that a reconstruction beased on asumptions would help in any way figure out how and in what way was the aspis useful? Even now that an almost intact shied was found and after so many bronze covers,we cannot be sure if our reconstructions are close enough to the real thing.
Now about those boeotians,I find it extremely fascinating myself that some people(Chris and now the other Chris) want to make a try for real. But it's too dangerous to draw false conclusions. Let me just say what things we don't know: No size,no depth,no matterials,no shape,no way of attachment to the arm/hand,no actual use and in what concept,no literal references to it,no representations of it after +-500bc when tactics are being described.
Khairete
Goannis

PS.Kineas,did you receive my e-mail?

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 01-28-2009

Wow. I disagree. I think that you can chart the design, construction, and development of the Boeotian from soup to nuts. And my suspicion is that the disappearance of the Boeotian is a clue to the major change in Hoplite fighting. I'd even go so far as to say that by 450, they were "mythical". But not in 550. And probably not at Marathon...

As for construction, well, I think that all you need is an oxhide and some wood and a steam-bender. Apparently the aspis at Baden is constructed this way,and the current academic theory is that all the Greek shields started as wicker (actually woven flat willow strips) with oxhide over them. I suspect (but I won't know until I build one) that you will get the whole dished look, etc. And that a forged bronze central spine will hold a porpax and antelabe.
The article in the Cambridge Companion to Archaic Greece includes several quotes about later hoplites building temporary aspides out of brush or wicker or willow strips. The transition would be--willow strips woven, then willow strips laid side by side and pegged to the same running 90 degrees out underneath (two layers), both with heavy hide covers shaped in steam and a bronze rim to hold the shape--then the same with a bronze face, then a solid wood core with a bronze face, and finally, a solid wood core with a non-bronze face and bronze rim. All of these developments would match the developments in industrialization and certain tools, according to my Greek and Roman engineering texts, and would also match current views of trends in fighting and in NUMBERS. (As the hoplite numbers grow, the need for a mass produced aspis grows). And the Boeotian vanishes when the phalanx actually gets tight enough to mean that a man whose porpax runs 90 degrees out from everyone else can't stand in the line of battle.
Anyway, it interests me, but I won't by pushing it--I could be wrong. I'd merely say--show me another piece of military kit in antiquity that is widely represented in art but didn't exist.
(Actually, I can think of one... the chariot, at least in Archaic and Classical)

Giannis, I got your e-mail. I'll send you one!

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Giannis K. Hoplite - 01-28-2009

I won't argue further,since I fear you may decide not to make one! :lol: Just one thing:I didn't say it didn't exist. I don't say it existed,either. But I'm being very sceptical on what can a re-enactor understand about the functionality of the shield. Each one of us would come with a different reproduction,some of the totally different but all of them totally plausible. I bet you've seen Chris' reproduction. I think he has a tutorial of its making here in rat. He even has a video on youtube. But 550 bc sounds too late for an accurate reproduction. i dare say there is more evidence for the same shield three centuries earlier.
As for wicker shield made by hoplites,i think they always fought as light troops when they did this,for example the Athenian oarsmen in Sphacteria(and this belongs to another thread)
Do you plan your re-construction to look very closely to the stylized examples of the late sixth century?
Khaire
Giannis

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 02-12-2009

Theron's shield (our third)

[Image: n681611203_2010865_8670.jpg]

The fourth and fifth are completely done and awaiting the artist, and the sixth is having hte most elaborate interior of all time....

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Dutchhoplite - 02-16-2009

Looks great!

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - PMBardunias - 02-16-2009

Quote:I think that most academics have reverted to the assumption that something so widely represented is in fact real

Sorry Christian, I somehow missed this and didn't respond. I am glad to see that the consensus has shifted- gives me something to argue against :wink:

I should be clear. I think the Boeotian shield as often portrayed- basically an aspis with cut-outs on the lateral edges is not a real shield. The earlier Dipylon surely existed and may have lasted longer than generally thought, but there are key differences in the two shields.

The diplyon shield was a single-center grip shield- far more oval than round. The waist of the diplylon arised from pinching in the sides of an oval shield in order to bow the face outward- which strengthens the shield for a variety of reasons.

As shown, the Boeotian does not do this. Often the rim is almost complete, with only a few centimeters gap. Cutting a rim that could so easily connect so weakens the shield that I cannot imagine anyone doing so for a fighting shield. Better to just paint a black stripe that looks like a cut out (could some of these shields be aspises painted with semi-circular patches on the sides to look like Boeotians?) The cut-out itself weakens the shield, but not so much as the cut rim.

Could the Dipylon have existed along side the aspis? Sure, but it was surely a matter of fashion not function. The bearer was conciously using a weakened shield for the sake of appearance. Whenever I doubt that this could happen- I tend to look for functionality in every feature- I remind myself of the Apulio-corinthian helmet and how dumb it is to cut a big "T" in the brow of your helmet!

I am very jaded about vase images, because it is so difficult to know what the artist believed he was portraying and what we think he was. Is there an archaeological find of a Thracian pelta or Persian figure 8 sheild with a Porpax and antilabe for instance? They are very commonly portrayed with such.

The other problem with the Boeotian is that the diplylon shape appears to have had a significant meaning- going way back in the region. It is essentially the same shape as the Labrys or double-bitted axe which had religeos significance to Minoans and Mycenaeans. The shape itself appears in the form of the way men were depicted- broad shouldered and hipped, but wasp-wasted.

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 02-19-2009

Archippos shield (our fourth)

Re: Hoplite Shield Designs - Kineas - 02-19-2009

Promised to put up all the finished shields together:

The white "Argive" in the foreground is waiting for the new owner to paint it.

Here are the backs of the first five:

One more (very fancy) on the table, and the second six blanks come in March.