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Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Printable Version

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Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Praefectusclassis - 01-18-2006

This thread is for the discussion of [amazon]J.E. Lendon, Soldiers and Ghosts[/amazon].
Some reviews:
Review 1
Review 2
Review 3
Review 4 (may not be available for everyone).

Suggestions of when people will have finished the book?


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Praefectusclassis - 01-24-2006

When will everyone have read the book?


what book? - richsc - 01-25-2006

Thanks for the reference Jasper; I hadn't seen this one at all. Other than Osprey, which is obvious, and Roman fiction, I have no idea how to find all the new books coming out. Suggestions?


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Jona Lendering - 02-02-2006

Quote:I have no idea how to find all the new books coming out
You may consider the Bryn Mawr Classical Review ([url:yvi7sm5j]http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/[/url]), an electronic news letter that contains reviews and sometimes discussions. Many recently published books on classics and ancient history are sent over there and it is often the first journal that publishes a review. Every month, there is a list of "books received", which usually covers the most important English publications.


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Tarbicus - 02-04-2006

Quote:You may consider the Bryn Mawr Classical Review
Just got this excellent review in my Inbox:
Bryn Mawr Classical Review 2006.02.14


when will I be finished reading this book? - Caius Fabius - 02-12-2006

well, I got so tired of the "all Greeks fought because Homer wrote epics" theme, that i had to take a break at the end of the Greek/Macedonian section. (yawn!)
Maybe I'll try the Roman stuff while sitting in a waiting room, somewhere....


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Praefectusclassis - 02-13-2006

It does get drummed into you, that is true. It gets less bad later.


Prof Lendon at Univ of Virginia - richsc - 04-14-2006

Coincidentally, Matt Amt went down to UVa and did a lecture for Prof Lendon a few weeks ago. A pretty interesting fellow, he says. There are actually several Roman military historians in the general DC area, like Col Sheldon at VMI, who was invited over to speak at the Roman Army conf a few months back. We just need to find them all and invite them to Roman Days.


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Praefectusclassis - 04-14-2006

Good idea Rich! Go reach out (and preach the RAT & JAMS!)


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Narukami - 05-04-2006

I have read this book, and while it is full of interesting material I did not find it to a quick or easy read.

The sections on Rome were somewhat more interesting but this is defiantly a book for specialists and not the general reader, and even then I think many might find it slow going.

There is excellent scholarship here to be sure, and some interesting ideas, however not one of my favorites.

Perhaps that's just me.

Narukami


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Mitra - 05-12-2006

I have read Lendon some months ago ; the major merit of book is the focus on a different perspective on the ancient warfare. The mono-cause solutions is never completes but a different point of view can be a good starting point for new interpretations.
Antropological analyses can have a major influx on art of war that logical solutions in pre-modern era.


Re: when will I be finished reading this book? - Virgil - 05-23-2006

Quote:well, I got so tired of the "all Greeks fought because Homer wrote epics" theme, that i had to take a break at the end of the Greek/Macedonian section. (yawn!) ...

I tend to share your frustration, it didn't get any better in the Roman section. Victor Hanson does the culture of war thing well, Lendon doesn't. He has no intuitive sense of how soldiers operate from a psychological stand point or how leadership is exercised.

Human nature and male psychology hasn't changed over the centuries and the Romans harnessed psychological incentives it better than anyone from an organizational standpoint. Peer pressure, not to be looked upon as a coward and the drive to be noticed for bravery and toughness by both them and your leaders are a powerful incentives still used today.

As an example of many there is Lendon’s commentary on Trajan’s column. His notion, dependent on some contemporary scholar's writings, is that the column’s several instances of auxiliaries in combat versus those of legionary soldiers foraging and building shows the role of the legion as engineers rather than soldiers. To someone without a military background maybe this thesis is understandable, to a soldier it isn’t. The column was overseen if not designed, one can guess fairly confidently, by Romans and probably Romans with a military background. Soldiers will tell you a majority of their time, even in a war zone, is spent not fighting but doing a variety of mundane tasks like unloading, construction, maintenance and dozens of other things. This aspect of military life hasn’t changed much in two thousand years. It's natural to assume that designing a column from one's own perspective would reflect that.

My copy is scribbled with dozens of note, but I'll leave it here as it--my take on it for what it's worth.


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Mitra - 05-23-2006

For finish my recension , on can read Lendon with the J.Bourke's book "A intimate History of Killing" with attention to chapters I and II. We can read of ideologic influence of war films and war romances on the XX century soldiers. The necessity of exit from tha anonymity of modern battlefields , create a series of soldiers rituals, stories and images (also falses) for recreate themself in the mental world how individual warriors face the brutality of modern war. The ghost of warrior also in the modern soldier.


LOL - Caius Fabius - 05-23-2006

Actually I finished the book a by the first of March, but I just didn't find that much worth commenting about. It is an idea or thesis to explain some stuff, but not the only possibility.


Re: Lendon, \'Soldiers and Ghosts\' - Jona Lendering - 10-08-2006

I just finished reading this book and I think it is sympathic. Still, I can not deny that I felt that the Greek chapters were less than the Roman ones. In fact, I found the book becoming better and better. (And yes, this means that I found the notes the most useful...)

What I do not like about the Greek chapters is that I thought that Lendon was stressing something we already know. Homer was everywhere, not in the least because almost any statement can be defended by quoting one of his poems. Lendon admits as much somewhere. (With equal validity, we can say that modern western warfare is based upon the Bible, because this book is also a large set of often contradictory statements. You can always find something.) This makes Lendon's thesis a bit gratuitous (if this is the correct English word).

On the other hand, I found the Roman chapters very interesting. I had never realized how much antiquarianism was there in ancient Roman warfare. The chapter on Julian I found splendid. I wonder whether the expression comitatenses is not a translation of hetairoi (Macedonian cavalry).

Finally: isn't there always a past sitting upon our shoulders? Aren't generals not always fighting the preceding war?