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+--- Thread: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief (/showthread.php?tid=4759)
Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-13-2006
Everyone is familiar with the relief in the Berlin Staatliche Museen
This is the one from the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology.
Every year I take students on a field trip and decided to snap this.
![[Image: puteoli_upenn.jpg]](http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/puteoli_upenn.jpg)
There is a great detail of the praetorian's shield and some scabbard decorations,
Also, an unrecognizable caligae pattern.
I can post details.
Travis
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-13-2006
Here's a view of the shield strap of the soldier on the left, see how he hooks his index finger through it.
![[Image: shield_strap.jpg]](http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/shield_strap.jpg)
also, check out the scorpion on the scutum
And here's the weird caligae.
![[Image: caligae.jpg]](http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/caligae.jpg)
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - aitor iriarte - 02-13-2006
Travis,
I cannot see the caliga!
Notwithstanding, the detail of the Pretorian holding his scutum's carrying strap is awesome!!
hock: Thanks!
Aitor
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-13-2006
Quote:Travis,
I cannot see the caliga!
Ack!
Here I think I fixed the link now.
Here's a better detail of the scorpion on the shield.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/scorpion.jpg
Those Caligae btw, look a lot like the ones on the arch of Sept. Severus and several other reliefs. They look really odd.
Looking at a lot of the reliefs I've seen, particularly those in Italy, they tend to look like each other in their details, whereas they don't look like the archaeological finds we see, but we see that northern reliefs look more like the examples we have. Most of the surviving equipment is from N. European finds? Is that not correct?
Is it possible that all we are seeing here is the difference between northern and southern equipment?
Any thoughts?
Travis
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Susanne - 02-13-2006
I assume this is a Republican relief?
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-13-2006
Quote:I assume this is a Republican relief?
No it's Trajanic.
It's a really cool slab of rock. On the other side is an inscription from the era of Domitian. It has been excised, probably by locals during the reign of Nerva, who were embarassed to have a monument to the deposed Emperor. Later, it was salvaged and the back side was carved to make a monument to Trajan.
Travis
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Martin Moser - 02-13-2006
Quote:Looking at a lot of the reliefs I've seen, particularly those in Italy, they tend to look like each other in their details, whereas they don't look like the archaeological finds we see, but we see that northern reliefs look more like the examples we have. Most of the surviving equipment is from N. European finds? Is that not correct?
Yes I think so.
Quote:Is it possible that all we are seeing here is the difference between northern and southern equipment?
Actually the Valkenburg/Castleford pattern published by van Driel-Murray when worn shows quite a few similarities IMHO - very thin straps, horizontal strips between some of the vertical straps, little decorative strips hanging down from the top of the back seam. Also notice the decorative little bud between the ankle straps in the Cancelleria relief, much like in the Valkenburg/Castlefors pattern. In the Cancelleria relief you can also make out something that looks like a protective band running down over and covering the back seam. The straps in front however seem to come up *between* the toes however, something that is not normally possible with the cutting patterns of the finds.
We also have to bear in mind that there were all kinds of minor and major variations of the cutting pattern as the finds show, practically every single one is somehow different and individual as far as I recall.
So while those reliefs depict their own style I find they are not that far from the originals, but rather another variation of the caliga, maybe psecific to the south, as you said, but that I can't tell. Would like to see more detailed pictures of those other reliefs you have been talking about, as the only good one I know and have is the above mentioned caliga from the Cancelleria relief.
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Susanne - 02-13-2006
Quote:No it's Trajanic.
Ok, thanks for the heads-up. Reason why I thought it was (late) Republican / Augustean is that the drapes are similar to those of some Augustean sculptures. My bad.
Quote:It's a really cool slab of rock. On the other side is an inscription from the era of Domitian. It has been excised, probably by locals during the reign of Nerva, who were embarassed to have a monument to the deposed Emperor. Later, it was salvaged and the back side was carved to make a monument to Trajan.
Travis
Damnatio Memoriae!
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Flavius Promotus - 02-13-2006
Strange how thin this carrying strap is. And the ones seen on Trajan's column are not broader, either.
Why did they not use broader carrying straps to spread the pressure from the weight over a larger surface?
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-13-2006
Quote:Would like to see more detailed pictures of those other reliefs you have been talking about, as the only good one I know and have is the above mentioned caliga from the Cancelleria relief.
Your wish is my command!!
here are three views from three of the different plinth bases from the Arch of Sept. Severus.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictur ... e_sept.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictur ... _sept2.jpg
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictur ... _sept3.jpg
Notice the grid patterning! How odd.
Thanks for the info on Caligae.
I was wondering what your opinion is of the ankle detail in the Puteoli relief from the UPenn Museum above.
Here's the link again
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/caligae.jpg
It looks like the ankle bone is exposed with straps above and below it. This seems really very different from other Caligae patterns I have seen.
Travis
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Dan Diffendale - 02-13-2006
for anyone who's interested, I also have a picture of the erased inscription...
http://www.freewebtown.com/italica/ital ... nbits.html
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Caballo - 02-13-2006
"It looks like the ankle bone is exposed with straps above and below it. This seems really very different from other Caligae patterns I have seen. http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/caligae.jpg "
Another reading might be udones above a low cut caliga. I am irresistibly reminded of trainers with socks........ :roll:
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - Tarbicus - 02-14-2006
Interesting scabbard:
[url:13ytncfw]http://www.freewebtown.com/italica/italic_military/romish/praet04.jpg[/url]
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-14-2006
Quote:Strange how thin this carrying strap is. And the ones seen on Trajan's column are not broader, either.
Why did they not use broader carrying straps to spread the pressure from the weight over a larger surface?
Yeah, that's what you'd think but I often find Romans did thinks the hard way just out of tradition. I think it might have to do with the way he's carrying it, slung over a finger, it's an utterly casual moment.
Maybe they didn't carry the shield over long enough distances to be bothered, but you think they would.
Puzzling, ain't it?
Travis
Re: Puzzouli(Puteoli) Relief - tlclark - 02-14-2006
Quote:"It looks like the ankle bone is exposed with straps above and below it. This seems really very different from other Caligae patterns I have seen. http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/pictures/caligae.jpg "
Another reading might be udones above a low cut caliga. I am irresistibly reminded of trainers with socks........ :roll:
Actually that's exactly what I thought! It looks like a low cut caligae to allow the ankle bone free movement, but above that it looks like pretty solid straps. Anybody seen a caligae like this in the archaeological record?
Ummos,
What's your take on the ankle?
BTW - I've been reading your thread on the reconstruction of the Valkenburg/Castleford. Neat stuff!