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1st Century Hats - Primvs Pavlvs - 04-05-2006
I remember seeing an image of Romans wearing woven straw hats once. Is there anyone with this image?
I think the people were working in a field.
Also is there any evidence for other types of hats in the 1st century?
Re: 1st Century Hats - jvrjenivs - 04-05-2006
I personnaly know this picture from Cacaius Marketplace forum, but have no information about the hat-type, etc.
[url:2zbgfux4]http://azor.cisovanet.pl/oferta/rzym/tunika_na_kakaju.jpg[/url]
Second I know there is a picture of a Legionary with straw hat in Roman Military Clothing (2) (Graham Sumner, Met-at-arms, osprey Publishing), said AD 193.
Re: 1st Century Hats - tlclark - 04-05-2006
The broad brimmed had is called a petasos in the Greek and can be seen all over Greek art. There's a horsemen wearing one in the Panathenaic Frieze on the Parthenon. There's lots of images.
Presumably they were made from straw, but I'm not certain.
Travis
Re: 1st Century Hats - Carlton Bach - 04-05-2006
I think it's second century, but a leather hat was allegedly excavated at Vindonissa. J.P.Wild references it in his article in the Bonner Jahrbücher 'Clothing in the Noirth-western Provinces', but I haven't tracked down the find publication yet. Judging by the line drawing in Wild, it looked similar to the Hochdorf hat, a kind of shallow cone.
Re: 1st Century Hats - Crispvs - 04-05-2006
I think it equally possible that petasos type hats could have been made of leather or felt, as well as straw. Many of the ancient Greek depictions of the petasos which I have seen show them being worn by travellers who are also wearing cloaks and boots. The association with cloaks suggest that the hat is being worn as protection against bad weather. To my mind a leather or thick felt hat would be much better at coping with rain and snow (not to mention cold) than a straw one, although straw would undoubtedly suffice for a short time.
It has been suggested in the past that felt would be impractical for the wide brim as, without the wire stiffener generally sewn into modern felt hats, the brim would quickly collapse into the sort of thing which was popular with sime hippies in the late 1960s. However, I inspected my great uncles old scout hat quite closely a few years ago and found that the brim had not been re-enforced with wire and yet had retained its shape well, despite being used by a succession of scouts before being relegated to the ignominius role of a cowboy hat for a further succession of boys. The thickness of the felt presumably had something to do with this and no doubt the hat had been treated with some preservative substance during its manufacture. I cite this example to show that felt might be a possibility for the material of some petasoi. Waxing the felt could add an extra degree of both waterproofing and stiffening as well.
Thick leather, of course, would be quite easy to mould and sew into a petasos type hat. I am not trying to dismiss the idea of brimmed hats being made of straw (I am sure I have seen photograps of third century BC Italian statues showing wide brimmed hats which still retained traces of yellow), but I am not convinced that they would all have been straw. The few sculpural depictions I have seen which do not originate in Italy do not give many clues as to the material the hats are made from and I think it is a risky assumption to think that if they were commonly made of straw in Italy they must have been made of straw in other places as well.
Crispvs
Purchase a Petastos? - Gaius Julius Quartus - 04-18-2006
About two years ago I found a hat like you are describing at a reenactment event. It was (is) made of straw. LaWren's Nest was selling them for around $6, which I thought was a good deal.
Don't know if they would still carry this item, but maybe you can drop them an email if you're interested in purchasing one for yourself. In the past, they have been good to work with.
www.lawrensnest.com
Good luck!
Re: 1st Century Hats - Tarbicus - 04-18-2006
According to Wiki (yes, let's not go there) the petasos could be made of wool felt, leather or straw.
[url
27my1ei]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petasos[/url]![[Image: image40.jpg]](http://www.villagehatshop.com/template-images/glossary/image40.jpg)
And according to this glossary of hats, straw and felt:
[url
27my1ei]http://www.villagehatshop.com/glossary_p.html[/url]Could it be possible to take something like this fancy dress straw hat and reshape it wet?:
![[Image: 4d_2.JPG]](http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/c0/15/4d_2.JPG)
Re: 1st Century Hats - Peroni - 04-18-2006
Three types of the straw version from our website. Military and civilian use.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... egnew2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... 0n20av.jpg
Another colleague has one in felted wool with a stiffened brim.
Regards,
Peronis
Re: 1st Century Hats - IMP GALLIENVS AVG - 04-18-2006
Emperor Augustus is famous for wearing a straw hat, and it appears to be true that he really did.
Andrew
hats - Graham Sumner - 04-18-2006
Romans including soldiers, especially in the first century AD seemed to be particularly shy about wearing hats or at least when they had their portraits done! However we do know that they existed and examples of straw hats some with a peak at the front can be seen on mosaics in particular those representing fishermen.
However I remember that when the Ermine Street Guard were thinking of introducing straw hats for off duty wear a few years ago I had a good scour through my books just to check if the ones proposed would be suitable. In fact some very similar types can be seen in a wall painting from the Esquiline in Rome now in the Vatican Museum. The painting is slightly earlier than first century AD and shows a scene from the Odyssey but the men wear hats like the one in the second picture in Adrian's post above, in all probability from the same supplier the Guard used!
I had hoped I had found a first century reference to soldier's hats in a poem by Petronius. However it has been pointed out to me by Aitor on this forum that a better and more logical translation would be a helmet. Aitor also points out that the well known reference in Ammianus to a soldiers hat inside a helmet used to soak up water from a well is also suspect!
Nevertheless it is in the later period that soldiers hats become a visible part of the soldiers uniform and they have been well illustrated elsewhere.
Recently some very odd looking hats surfaced in Egypt. They are helmet shaped and some have coloured pom poms on the top! At least one brimmed hat possibly the Petasus made of felt survives from Egypt and is now in the Bolton Museum and Art Gallery.
Graham.
Re: 1st Century Hats - Tarbicus - 04-19-2006
Quote:However we do know that they existed and examples of straw hats some with a peak at the front can be seen on mosaics in particular those representing fishermen.Graham, is this an example?
![[Image: roman_fishermen27.jpg]](http://www.dailyspeculations.com/roman_fishermen27.jpg)
[url:18iobnkw]http://www.dailyspeculations.com/Fishing.html[/url]
hats - Graham Sumner - 04-19-2006
Tarbicus wrote:
Quote:Graham, is this an example?
Yes indeed! A good source for hats are the North African mosaics.
The Esquiline examples can be seen in Roger Ling's book on Roman Painting.
Graham.
Re: 1st Century Hats - Tarbicus - 04-19-2006
Cheers Graham. The book's available on Amazon I see
hats - Graham Sumner - 04-19-2006
Hello Jim
If all you are interested in is the picture of the hats it would be a bit expensive to buy the whole book, although it is worth it if you are interested in Roman painting. If you are desperate I can email the relevant picture to you.
Looking through a book on the mosaics in Tunisia I spotted at least three other versions of (straw) hats to the one you have illustrated, one looking very like a cloth cap with a small front peak. I am sure that if any re-enactor wore something like that one at an event the public would not believe it was a Roman design!
While on the subject of mosaics David Neal, of Time Team fame, has co written a massive work on the mosaics of Britain. I have only seen volume 1 the north but I think the two volumes will illustrate every bit of mosaic ever found in Britain. It is of course very expensive but will of course be invaluable for costume references of which we have very few in this country.
Graham.
Re: hats - Tarbicus - 04-19-2006
Quote:Hello Jim
If all you are interested in is the picture of the hats it would be a bit expensive to buy the whole book, although it is worth it if you are interested in Roman painting. If you are desperate I can email the relevant picture to you.
Thanks Graham. Yes, I'd love the pic emailed to me. Do you still have my address? Much appreciated.