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+--- Thread: Women Warriors - Sarmatians (/showthread.php?tid=5403)
Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Arthes - 04-13-2006
Greetings,
I saw this article earlier today. The Scythian/Iranian/early Sarmatian outfits depicted in the drawing are gorgeous...
[url:1cy08qel]http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/Sarmatians/sarmatian-amazon.htm[/url]
Comments?
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Jona Lendering - 04-14-2006
I think the identification of the legendary Amazons with the historical Sarmatians is much too optimistic. The fact that every two or three years there is another archaeologist who claims to have found 'the first tomb of an Amazon' tells a lot. In this particular article, the quote of Hippocrates is quite silly, and the fact that the text contains many errors (e.g., Skilak for Scylax), suggests that the author was no expert.
But I admit that I have a bias against CAIS. One of its members once infringed upon my copyright. This is, on the internet, not unusual and to some extent even inevitable; still, this was a bit too much. The CAIS did not reply to my request to add at least my name, so I wrote to the respectable School of Oriental and African Studies (University of London), to which the CAIS claimed to be affiliated. The SOAS denied that there was any relation whatsoever and appears to have taken steps.
It is a pity; there are many well-meaning Iranian websites with which I would normally sympathize. I have visited Iran several times, have friends in Tehran, and know several exiles here in Holland. I love the Iranians, but their behavior regarding copyright can really exasparate me. Another website, IranChamber, even claims me as one of its contributors ([url:3nn7l33q]http://www.iranchamber.com/history/historic_periods.php[/url]); at least they have the decency to spell my name correctly.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Chuck Russell - 04-14-2006
my post got ate.
i watched a TV special where a guy found a amazon grave and located the decendant dna to a siberian mongal girl with blonde hair.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - hoplite14gr - 04-14-2006
Well we have indirect reference to the warrior women of the steppes.
My opinon is that like most women of the time, they went into action if the camp was overun or if someone surprised the tribe while the men were absent in hunt or war. They definetrly were not squamish.
Also the daugthers of the nobles perhaps were doing as they please.
Polovchy ladies of medieval times were known as keen huntresses with the bow but nothing definite was known of them riding into action.
They certainly knew how to defend themselves.
Women with their child bearing ability were and are too valuable to be waisted in battle. Remeber ,we talk about times were the need to survive was acute. For those who want links of the Kurgan grave finds may I suggest the "buttered Skythians" thread that Сristian started in Greek Military History section?
Kind regards
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Arthes - 04-14-2006
Greetings Chuck,
Quote:my post got ate.The ladies were probably hungry... :lol:
Quote:i watched a TV special where a guy found a amazon grave and located the decendant dna to a siberian mongal girl with blonde hair.thats interesting...do you remember which programme it was? I know there was one on the 'Ice Maiden' they found...
[url:2m7zzs1v]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2517siberian.html[/url] is the transcript and I think National Geographic did one too?
regards
Arthes
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Tarbicus - 04-24-2006
Gioi, do you know who the artist is?
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Robert Vermaat - 04-24-2006
Quote:Gioi, do you know who the artist is?That'll be Alan Lee, the illustration is from: Rosemary Sutcliff and Alan Lee (ill.): Black Ships before Troy - The Story of the Iliad, great book. I think (without the book in hand, that's at home) that the ill. is somewhere between p. 92 and 96 in the chapter 'Warrior Women'.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - First_Legionary - 05-22-2006
I'm not even too sure if the Amazons existed or not. At last I heard they were legend, although the large amounts of ancient tales and myths about female warriors and Amazons, so that could be interpreted as them being an actual people. I believe one of the better known tales was of Achilles killing of an Amazonian Queen whom he believed to be a man, upon killing her and discovering she was, in fact, a woman he fell in love with her corpse.
There are many tales of the "Barbarian" people bringing women into battle. Many of the tribes were used to having female warriors and even leaders, take the Budiccan Rebellian for example.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Dan Howard - 05-23-2006
I agree that it is extremely likely that some female members of Scythian tribes donned armour and engaged in battle. To take this evidence and conclude that they must have been the man-hating all-female tribe of Greek legend is ridiculous. The Amazons, as defined by the Greeks, did not exist.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Chuck Russell - 05-23-2006
so the test from the grave is inacturate then? hmmm
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - FAVENTIANVS - 05-24-2006
What about this one? Not Sarmatian but Scythian!
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - First_Legionary - 05-24-2006
Quote:What about this one? Not Sarmatian but Scythian!
Yes, I believe the Scythian women actively fought in battle.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Robert Vermaat - 05-24-2006
Scythian and Sarmatian women (and women from other steppe peoples) fought in battle, that's for sure.
But the Amazon lgend predates the use of the horse in war on the steppe, so the origin must be sought elsewhere. I seem to recall a paper about some Bronze Age people from northern Anatolia, we're talking 1600-1400 BC or something, which may have been the origin of the legend. It would explain the placing of Amazons in the Trojan War, which would then be yet another older element added to the saga.
Of course, the Greeks who dveloped the later legends took the steppe peoples as examples for their 'Amazons'.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Tarbicus - 05-25-2006
More on women in combat roles through history:
swordmaiden.com: A resource for women fighters in the SCA
Quote:In 590AD, a warrior nun named Chrodielde attempted to overthrow Leubevre, the abbess of Cheribert. War ensued between the two and the Frankish king Childebert had to intercede. Reportedly it took great effort for the king to bring Chrodielde and her army of locals under control.
Sounds like the subject for a female impression to me. And no, I'm not talking about me doing the impression.
Re: Women Warriors - Sarmatians - Dan Howard - 05-25-2006
Quote:Sounds like the subject for a female impression to me. And no, I'm not talking about me doing the impression.Nah. You don't have the legs for it.
