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+--- Thread: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare (/showthread.php?tid=7327)
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 05-29-2008
It's really confusing :?
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Adam E. - 06-08-2008
Hello
I've been reading these forums for some time but this is my first post. I have an avid interest in the Byzantine military, but have been struggling to interpret the texts and art from the period in order to understand Byzantine armour.
I've stumbled across some images of Byzantine military saints from the thirteenth-fourteenth century which I think may be of interest.
I found these and many others at this site:
www.metmuseum.org/special/byzantium/gallery_7.asp
The detail of the armour is quite extraordinary. Each of the three saints from the icon share similarities in equipment. Over their long-sleeved tunics their appear to wear vertically quilted arming jackets reaching to elbow and mid-thigh. Over (or fixed directly to) this padded garment is the metal armour: lamellar for the central figure, scale for the saint on the left (the third is wearing quilt or a kazaghand?) All three have separate splint or lamellar upper-arm defences and skirts, suspended by red stitching from the cuirass, as can clearly be seen. Also notice the (leather?) edging of the cuirass. This seems to be extended at the collar and circles the shoulders.
There is more to be written, but I am very interested to read how other RAT members interpret the images.
Cheers
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Adam E. - 06-08-2008
Here are the two other military saints in detail:
Cheers
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - hoplite14gr - 06-08-2008
Laudes.
Great Staff the clothes can be trusted more than the armor though.
I dont feel confident to accept many armor details, although they might have existed.
Please have a look at this knight
http://soldiers-russia.com/new_soldiers ... nner_2.htm
and you will see details appearing in 13 cent. hagiography.
There are armor fragments of preserved leather in the Novgorod museum that prompt you to think hagiografy is not so "stylizised" as we think.
Kind regards
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Adam E. - 06-09-2008
The variety of military equipment we see in icons throughout the empire's long existence is staggering. Everything from a simple mail shirt to the rather complex armour shown above. However, examples of the cuirass with separate skirt and (sometimes) sleeves appear across the empire's domains from different periods and also in later Serbian depictions of military saints.
One can examine the curious armour from the tenth century murals in the Goreme Valley: www.geocities.com/egfroth/Dovecote.html
Most of the saints appear to have separate armoured skirts.
See below this fantastical Serbian example of three saints which shares much in common with the Saint Prokopios icon from Egypt.
I've included a depiction from the Paleologan period (note the soldier on the left, who appears to wear no padding under his armour, only a tunic).
The most interesting aspect of the Saint Prokopios icon above is that it illustrates how these separate pieces of armour may have been attached to the cuirass.
Cheers
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 06-09-2008
I really like all the pics.
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - hoplite14gr - 07-09-2008
Byzantine weapons from the War Museum in Athens
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t178 ... 20weapons/
Enjoy
Kind regards
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-09-2008
Wow! They have allowed you to take pictures Stefanos?
Special permit or have they relaxed their rules?
I remembered it not being permitted when I was there!
Great pictures..... 8)
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - hoplite14gr - 07-09-2008
I threatened them with a copy of the magazine :lol:
Kinds regards
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Gaius Julius Caesar - 07-09-2008
I still have to go back there. It was closing time by the time I reached the navel section....had to whizz right past the things.... :roll:
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 07-10-2008
Nice link. I like it.
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 07-14-2008
Wow.
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - hoplite14gr - 07-14-2008
Wrong Gioi. This arrangement was for Palaiologos perhpas.
Graves in Greek Cemteries point towards the East.
Kind regards
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 07-15-2008
Really?
Re: Byzantine Weapons and Warfare - Ceasar Augustus - 07-15-2008
Wow.