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+--- Thread: Winged lance head/boar spear (/showthread.php?tid=8915)
Winged lance head/boar spear - Marcus Mummius - 04-02-2007
Salve omnes,
I'm writing a conservation report on this piece:
![[Image: lanspunt.jpg]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/MarcusMummius/lanspunt.jpg)
I'd very much appreciate any info on this lance type. This one was found in a river in Belgium. Is there some kind of typology that can be used as a dating help?
I've read several explanations on the wings of these lance heads. Some say the wings are there to avoid the lance falling out of a wound. Others say they are there to stop the spear from penetrating to deep. What is correct? Or is it a combination of both?
Can anyone offer a tentative dating of this piece?
Thanks in advance,
Kind regards,
Jef
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Marcus Mummius - 04-02-2007
Also: when did this lance type first appear?
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Paullus - 04-02-2007
Somehow I remember these weapons being connected to the Franks early on.
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Robert Vermaat - 04-02-2007
Yep, that's what I recall too - winged spearheads are considered Frankish.
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Matthew Amt - 04-02-2007
Ave!
The Sword Forum or My Armoury might be better places to get good information about this.
http://forums.swordforum.com/index.php?s=
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/index.php
In fact, the latter has a discussion about a repro version,
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9632
Judging by the comments there, yes, a winged spearhead is typically Carolingian/Frankish, but was also used into the Norman period.
The wings have nothing to do with penetration! There may be confusion on that score with boar spears, which have a crossbar of some sort behind the blade to keep the boar from simply running down your spearshaft and gutting you even though you already gutted him! It is believed that these wings are rather used for parrying and "fencing" in some way. I don't know the particulars, though.
That's about all I know, unfortunately! That style's never been one of my favorites since it tends to get over-emphasized. And there are a lot of bad repros of it out there...
Holy smokes, is that one really almost 50 cm long?? What a monster! Makes me much more inclined to accept that it's some kind of 2-handed polearm. Yikes.
Well, good luck! I'm always envious of folks who get to play with real artifacts!
Matthew
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Marcus Mummius - 04-02-2007
Thanks guys!
Yes, Matt, it's 50cm long
) I choose this artifact because it had different kinds of corrosion and a piece of the wooden shaft was conserved in the socket.
Too bad I couldn't choose something made out of bronze because this depot had very nice 'urneveld' swords.
Looks like the wings were good for everything
I've read things about hooking them on enemy shields and pulling them away from them too.Vale,
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Paullus - 04-02-2007
The Vienna Lance (the famous Spear of Longinus) was inspected some time ago. Besides the gold sheath and additional acoutrements added on, the oldest part of the weapon was a Frankish winged lance, the wings of which can be seen in these pictures:
http://community.iexplore.com/photos/jo ... s/hol1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... nze_02.JPG
Its been dated to the 7th century. It looks fairly close to the one you are examining, if slightly longer from the wings on the socket to the beginning of the actual spearhead.
Hope it helps.
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Marcus Mummius - 04-02-2007
Thanks Paul!
And all the others!
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Susanne - 04-02-2007
Marcus, are you the guy who found the item? It's gorgeous!
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Marcus Mummius - 04-02-2007
Quote:Marcus, are you the guy who found the item? It's gorgeous!
Actualy I found it hanging on a rack in a stuffy depot
Does this count? It's been found between 1923 and 1925. I've excavated some very nice things but never such a cool lancehead
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Gaius Julius Caesar - 04-03-2007
That lance of Longinus almost looks as if there is part of a pilum point in it!
That is supposed to be the lance used to pierce Jesus' side, isn't it?
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Paullus - 04-03-2007
Yes Byron it is! According to legend, which seem to be a dime a dozen with regard to the Holy Lance.
The one intriguing part of the Vienna Lance is that the little piece inset into the hole cut into the spear seems to be a highly decorated crucifixion nail. It certainly looks like a pilum head from those pictures
From what I remember, it is apparantly a genuine Roman artifact, or at least unable to be proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt. According to legend the spear at one time belonged to Constantine (a previous legendary possessor was the famed St. Maurice), whose mother collected various Christian relics, one of which was a nail used in the execution of Jesus. Before the Battle of Milvian Bridge, she supposedly set the nail into the Spear of Longinus before giving it to her son, and the rest is history, so the story goes....
Hopefully I didn't highjack your thread Jef!
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Robert Vermaat - 04-03-2007
Quote:Before the Battle of Milvian Bridge, she supposedly set the nail into the Spear of Longinus before giving it to her son, and the rest is history, so the story goes....You mean the rest is legend, or so the myth goes.. :wink:
Re: Winged lance head/boar spear - Paullus - 04-03-2007
Too true
