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+--- Thread: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? (/showthread.php?tid=9729)
IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Arahne - 06-21-2007
Is there any reliable source for this Firma? I have not found any.
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Praefectusclassis - 06-21-2007
It's usually shortened, but some inscriptions write it out in full, eg:
Belegstelle: CIL 03, 00201 (p 1228) = D 05864a
Provinz: Syria Ort: Suq Wadi Barada
Pro salute / Imp(eratorum) Aug(ustorum) Antoni/ni et Veri M(arcus) Vo/lusius Maximus / |(centurio) leg(ionis) XVI F(laviae) Firm(ae) / qui operi in/stit(u)it v(otum) s(olvit)
Belegstelle: CIL 08, 05179 (p 1639) = ILAlg-01, 00536
Provinz: Africa proconsularis Ort: Kef Bezioun / Zattara
Q(uinto) Domitio P(ubli) f(ilio) Q[u]ir(ina) / Hispano trib(uno) [mi]l(itum) / leg(ionis) XVI Flavia[e] / Firmae quaestori urb(ano) / d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) p(ecunia) p(ublica)
Belegstelle: CIL 10, 01202 = CIL 09, *00674 = D 02660
Provinz: Latium et Campania / Regio I Ort: Avella / Abella
N(umerio) Marcio / N(umeri) f(ilio) Gal(eria) / Plaetorio Celeri / quaest(ori) IIvir(o) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) VII / Gemin(ae) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) XVI Fl(aviae) Firm(ae) / donis donato a divo / Traian(o) bello Parthic(o) / corona murali torquib(us) / armillis phalaris |(centurioni) leg(ionis) II / Gall(icae) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) XIIII Gem(inae) Mart(iae) Victr(icis) / |(centurioni) leg(ionis) VII Cl(audiae) P(iae) F(idelis) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) I Adi(utricis) P(iae) F(idelis) p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) / eiusd(em) praeposit(o) numeror(um) / tendentium in ponto Ab/saro trib(uno) coh(ortis) III vig(ilum) / patron(o) colon(iae) / d(ecreto) d(ecurionum)
Belegstelle: CIL 11, 01937
Provinz: Etruria / Regio VII Ort: Perugia / Perusia
D(is) M(anibus) / [3] Verseni L(uci) f(ilii) Lem(onia) / Graniani tri[b(uni)] / coh(ortis) XXXII volunt(ariorum) / trib(uni) leg(ionis) XVI Fl(aviae) Firm(ae) / IIvir(i) Hispellatium / patrono municipi(i) / [3]arnat() vixit annis / XXXII fratri piissim[o] / Versenus Aper
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Arahne - 06-21-2007
Thanks Jasper, as usual my question is confusing
. I was asking about the reliable source for IIII Flavia not XVI Flavia. Besides some mistakes, I should call them mistakes if there is no full inscription IIII flavia firma, I have not found any inscription with this solution.
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Praefectusclassis - 06-21-2007
Sorry Stefan, I should've read your threat title better.
There is nevertheless a good reason why you cannot find firm evidence for IIII Flavia Firma. That's because it's IIII Flavia Felix:
Belegstelle: CIL 05, 07160 = D 02086
Provinz: Transpadana / Regio XI Ort: Bagienno
M(arco) Coelio C(ai) f(ilio) / Cam(ilia) Clementi / mil(itavit) c(o)hort(e) VI pr(aetoria) / optioni evoc(ato) Aug(usti) / centurioni leg(ionis) / IIII Flav(iae) Felic(is) Mys(ia!) / superior(e) aras parentib(us) / suis et propinq(uis) t(estamento) f(ieri) i(ussit) / quod opus faciend(um) / curavit C(aius) Petronius / Firmus / scrib(sit!) C(aius) Pompeius
Belegstelle: CIL 09, 00731 = EAOR-03, 00079 = AE 1991, 00513 = AE 1995, +00355
Provinz: Apulia et Calabria / Regio II Ort: Larino / Larinum
[3]s Q(uinti) f(ilius) Clu(stumina) Capito / f[lam(en) divi] Titi patron(us) municipi(i) / IIII[vir viaru]m curandarum trib(unus) / mi(litum) [le]g(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) Felicis quaestor{i} / amp[hi]theatrum testamento fieri / iussit
Belegstelle: InscrIt-10-05, 00161 = AE 1908, 00220
Provinz: Venetia et Histria / Regio X Ort: Brescia / Brixia
T(itus) Marcius / Omuncio / veter(anus) leg(ionis) IIII / Flaviae Felicis t(estamento) f(ieri) i(ussit)
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Arahne - 06-21-2007
Yes. Right now I am trying to organize my database of inscriptions for IIII Flavia and I had to deal with this problem. And all of a sudden I realized that besides few respectable authors and some unreliable internet sources there is no evidence for giving the IIII flavia an epithet firma.
So to summarize IIII FLavia was Felix, Antoniniana, Severiana Alexandriana, Gordiana, Galliena, pia constans (this one is very dubious - Ritterling PW)or most of the time simply Flavia
. If I find any other I'll post it.update: antoniniana
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Roy - 06-21-2007
Quote:And all of a sudden I realized that besides few respectable authors and some unreliable internet sources there is no evidence for giving the IIII flavia an epithet firma.
Most of those internet sources state that IIII Macedonica was reconstituted under the name IIII Flavia Firma.
IIII Macedonica was reconstituted as IIII Flavia Felix.
XVI Gallica was reconstituted as XVI Flavia Firma.
Both were reconstituted, and got the new name, after the Batavian rebellion.
So, any website that mentions IIII Flavia Firma probably mixed up those two legions
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - Arahne - 07-05-2007
That life is not so simple shows this inscription: Dura Europos
I(ovi) O(ptimo) M(aximo) D(olicheno) s(acrum) / pro sal(ute) M(arci) / Ant(oni) Valen/tini eiusq(ue) / omnium / |(centurionis) princ(ipis) ve/xill(ationum) leg(ionum) IIII / et IVX(!) F(laviae) f(irmae) Anto/(ninianae) / Agat(h)ocles / lib(ertus) eius v(otum) s(olvit) / l(ibens) a(nimo) Gent(iano) et Bas/so co(n)s(ulibus)
How would you solve it? loooooooool. This is why I love Roman Culture.
source - heidelberg database - AE 1954, 0264.
besides one inscription that is unique as far as I know: Lugdunum
AE 1955, 0211.
Ti(berio) Cl(audio) Ti(beri) fil(io) Palati[na] / Secundino L(ucio) Stat(io) Ma[ce]/doni p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) fide[lis] / trib(uno) coh(ortis) I vig(ilum) trib(uno) coh(ortis) XI / [urb(anae) trib(uno) coh(ortis) IX p]raetor(iae) [&
Re: IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ??? - D B Campbell - 07-05-2007
Quote:... ve/xill(ationum) leg(ionum) IIII / et IVX(!) F(laviae) f(irmae) Anto/(ninianae) ... (AE 1954, 0264)Nice! The stone-cutter has saved himself the trouble of two different sets of cognomina (a) by adding only one set, and (b) by abbreviating it so that it can stand for either F(laviae) f(irmae) or F(laviae) f(elicis). Clever!
(I like the mirror-image numeral IVX.)
Quote:AE 1955, 0211: ... p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) fide[lis] ...Virtually the same inscription can be found at ILS 1339 (= CIL V 867), but without the FIDE[lis]:
Ti(berio) Claudio / Ti(beri) fil(io) Pal(atina) / Secundino / L(ucio) Statio Macedon[i] / p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII F(laviae) F(elicis) trib(uno) coh(ortis) / prim(ae) vig(ilum) trib(uno) coh(ortis) XI / urban(ae) trib(uno) coh(ortis) VIIII p[r(aetoriae)] / p(rimo) p(ilo) iterum praef(ecto) leg(ionis) II Tra[ianae] proc(uratori) XX her(editatum) proc(uratori) provinc(iarum) / Lugdunens(is) et Aquitan[i(ae)] / a rationib(us) Aug(usti) praef(ecto) an[non(ae)] / L(ucius) Saufeius Iulianu[s] / amico optim[o]
Curious, indeed. (And a nice example of a primipilaris career.
)