Lauresfort Phalerae (Help German Translation)

[Doc]

I am having the Lauresfort Phalerae reproduced. However, before I do so, I would like to know what they were made of; silver or silvered brass/bronze with or without gilding.

This is what I know so far:

Valerie Maxfield: silvered bronze
Peter Connolly: Silver with gold inlay
Curle: Silver foil
Erik Konig: Silver sheet

I have resepect for all the above. However, V. Maxfield is an expert when it comes to Dona Militaria. She is the only one however, that mentiones silvered bronze. So I am wondering who is correct. There is a huge price difference between brass and silver. So before I have them done, I need to know the metal used.

I tried contacting Berlin directly but with no avail. I just could not get anyone on the phone.

I have good pictures of the reproductions in Berlin but I have poor pictures of the actual ones. Even though, the poor pictures seem to suggest that they were a very fine decoration implying silver. But again one cannot tell from a picture especially if it is poor quality.

Finally, I was able to obtain two articles in German from Berlin. One article is from 1975 ( photobucket 002) and the other from 1988 (photobucket 004). These articles are dedicated to the Lauresfort.

The articles are in the photobucket links below. All I am trying to find out is: 1) are they made of silver or silvered bronze/brass 2) was there any gilding or gold inlays at all.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... 99/002.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... 99/004.jpg

If anyone knows for a fact that there is current information opposite to what the German articles above are suggesting, I would appreciate knowing it.

Any help would really be appreciated. Any suggestions?

Thank you very much

[Doc]

I forgot to mention, that you may have to blow up the articles to read them.

Also in the 1988 article (the one with the diagrams of the phalerae) there are small captions and foot notes that describe the dimensions of each phalerae. It is possible that some information is also in these small foot notes regarding how they are made.

Thanks again

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Paolo,
Both articles say worked silver on 'copper' (ie copper alloy) plates, referring to a more extensive 1932 article by someone named Matz. Clearly the article you need to look for.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

HEy, Paolo

You can find good pictures of the items at: http://romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Signum.html (middle of the page)

Interesting is that in the article you have posted says that the lunula shape piece is not belonging to the set, it's a kind of amulet.

Silver foil very thin over bronze/brass is the usual method to do items like horse harnesses, so probably the phalerae were made in that way.

In the pictures you can see that only some little details were gold gilded.

[Doc]

Thanks for the reply and translation not to mention the links to the pictures.

I though that they were silver not silvered brass. However, I wanted to make sure using the articels that I have.

Also thanks for the confirmation. It is as Curle wrote: worked foil over copper plates. This is exactly what Erik Konig was also reffering to.

I believe I may have the 1932 article. If anyone is interested, I can scan and post it here using photobucket.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

You are welcome. If you get the article, please post it! And the finished phalerae!

[Doc]

Jasper, I am looking over your post and the papers I put into photobucket with a little of help from my German dictionary.

So what I gather you are saying is that there is no silver plating mentioned at all with respect to how the Lauresfort were made. That in fact the phalerae were made of silver (either sheet or foil) that was worked (presumably repousse, hammering etc) then put unto copper (copper alloy) discs or plates (I am assuming the back plates where the harness goes)

The pictures that LUCIUS points to are reproductions not the actual Lauresfort. It could also be artisitc liscence on the part of the reproducer to put gilding.

Is there any mention of guilding on any of the two papers in photobucket?

Thanks

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Paolo,
No, guilding is not mentioned, but the second article is barely interested in exact construction and the first one just a little more. From what I've seen of the items in Xanten (which I think were the originals) and copies in Mainz, details were picked out in a yellow metal inlay, likey gold.

[Doc]

Jasper,

Thanks for the information.

It seems logical that a reconstruction at a museum would have the elements as accurate as possible.

From what you have seen (in person) and read on the papers I posted, the Lauresfort were made of silver not silvered brass correct (just to confirm)?

Thanks