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Dacian Reaper
#1
In honor of RAT being back online, here is a taste of my latest project. It is another instance where I have tried to ignore current dogma and placed my faith in the original source (Trajan's Column again) to see where it led me.
Like my redesigns of the onager and carroballista base, it is a work-in-progress so please bear with me. Hopefully, someday I'll manage to get these written up as full articles. In the meantime, I look forward to your opinions and questions?
Many thanks to Vallus Itsvan, and Steve Peffley for their expertise and assistance.

The Dacian Reaper

On Trajan's Column in Rome there is a depiction of the preparations for the Roman assault on a hilltop fortress near the end of the Second Dacian War. (105-6 AD) In the upper right-hand corner of the scene, at the base of the Dacian fortifications are three roughly-triangular wheeled structures. Conventional wisdom, based on the work of Otto Lendle, suggests that these are the remains of Roman siege engines called ship's prow tortoises left over from a previous assault. It is my intent to dispel this notion and replace it with a more plausible explanation of their origin and function.


(Refer below to Figure #1 From Conrad Cichorius, Die Reliefs der Traianssäule)

The ship's prow tortoise as first described by Apollodorus of Damascus in his text Poliorcetica (Siegecraft) was also triangular and could be mounted on wheels. According to his account it was designed to deflect wagons and barrels packed with logs that were rolled down at them by the defenders. Since Apollodorus was also the Chief Architect of the Column, it is easy to assume that these are the machines he described. Beyond having wheels and a superficial similarity of shape, there are a number of inconsistencies which contradict this conclusion;

The first incongruity is placement. If these were used as mobile walls to deflect logs and barrels rolled down upon the Romans, one would expect to find them in disarray somewhere in the no-man's land between the fort and the besieger's lines rather than lined up neatly in echelon at the top of the slope. Two of the three barrels shown appear to be resting at the foot of the wall.

The second is the structure of the machines. They have prominent triangular frames but there are no protective walls. If we are to believe, as suggested, that they are burned out hulks then we must then explain how they all burned in such a consistent manner and why the barrels next to them show no damage. Instead of defensive barriers these machines have a number of sharpened stakes and a hook or blade, all of which are facing down slope at the Romans. As a general rule, the offensive surfaces (i. e. sharp bits) of a weapon are most effective when pointed at the enemy.

The wheels are another significant feature. Their large diameter and placement at the outermost corners of the frame are more like those of an off-road vehicle than the iron bound rollers Apollodorus described. They would be ideal for careening at high speed down the hill, but superfluous if one were inching a heavy structure uphill in the face of enemy fire.

Having established that these are almost certainly not Roman tortoises, it is time to offer a theory of what they might have been and who made them. By default, credit for them goes to the besieged Dacians. This is supported by the fact that most Roman weapons had straight blades while the signature weapon of the Dacians was the two-handed falx, a hooked blade strikingly similar to the ones on these machines. The Latin word for scythe is falx. I began thinking of these weapons as Dacian Reapers, which brought to mind another obscure machine invented in Belgic Gaul.

Described in the mid first century by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History as a novel method of harvesting grain the vallus was designed to be pushed forwards through the standing grain shearing the heads off the crop leaving the straw in the field. The term vallus (a derivative of vallum or palisade) referred to the prominent row of forward-facing spikes which bunched up and stripped the stalks. Surviving images of the device showed that it bore a striking resemblance to the basic layout of these machines. They share an angular frame jutting rearwards from a transverse axle bearing a projecting row of “teeth”. It is easy to imagine some besieged farmer surrounded by serried ranks of the legions as numerous as summer wheat, looking to his experience for a way of mowing them down. This romantic bubble was nearly burst by the reality that the Mosel Valley where the vallus was invented is a long way from the Danube. The Romans, possessing an abundant supply of slaves had little need for such a labor saving device. They apparently did little to promote its use in other regions of the Empire. How then, could one establish a plausible means of transmission for this technology between domesticated Gaul and the Dacian hinterlands? Solving that riddle proved surprisingly easy.


Figure #2 The Gallic Reaper (Vallus) on a relief from Trier

The vallus was invented by the Treveri Tribe in the area around present day Arlon. They were described by Pomponius Mela as the “most enlightened of the Belgae”, and they prospered under Roman colonization until 70 AD when they joined the Batavian Rebellion. When the rebellion failed, a large number of their most prominent nobles fled east to live among their Germanic Allies. The importance of the harvester to their material culture is evidenced by the fact that a number of them had adopted the name Vallus. The dispersion of their descendants throughout the region is covered in greater detail in a manuscript being published by a fellow Roman Army Talk Forum Member Vallus Istvan, AKA “Treveri Gaul”. Finding people named after the machine you are investigating still thriving in the area after nearly two millennia makes it very plausible that they brought their technology and industrious nature along as well.

With a clearer view of the Dacian Reaper’s origin and purpose there are still several unanswered questions about it’s appearance and tactical deployment to consider. Taking the images from the column literally in the absence of other sources, it appears that the weapon’s timbers and wheels were arranged as an elongated right triangle rather than the symmetrical isosceles triangle one might expect. The asymmetry continued with the blade/hook/falx affixed to only one hub of the axle. The potential value of this lopsided contraption was not apparent until I tested a scale model built as faithfully as possible to the Trajanic frieze.

Figure #3 Photo reconstruction with the model in place of the middle weapon

When rolled rapidly into rows of obstacles (similar to advancing assault troops) the machine has a tendency to slew violently to the right. Imagine a person running full speed downhill and hooking a tree with their right arm. The trailing wheel then swings in a wide arc, striking the line to the left of the original point of impact. Turning sideways in this manner allows the machine to affect a wider swath of the target, instead of just punching through and continuing on downhill. If the impact fails to stop the device it continues on diagonally, striking subsequent ranks at a flanking angle.

Perhaps the hardest part of this project has been estimating the size of the actual machine. Using the size of the largest known falx blades as a guide yields a wheel height four to five feet and an overall length around twenty feet. This sets the height of the stakes and blade in the knee to groin area of opposing infantry. Too high to jump over, too massive to stop, and nothing but wheels or points to grab hold of. Facing such a weapon would be a daunting prospect. Finding willing participants for full-scale trials may prove difficult.

Figure #4 3D computer Model of the Dacian Reaper

This brings us back to Apollodorus and his reason for including these novelties on his tribute to Emperor Trajan. Much of the column is devoted to the glorious accomplishments of the Emperor and his men and the perils they faced. What better way highlight the hardships than to show some of the terrible tricks their foe employed? His Poliorcetica is believed to have been written years later. Isn’t it more reasonable to assume that the ship’s prow tortoise was developed as a countermeasure in response to the incident depicted? The Romans never seem to have adopted the Dacian Reaper, but then, they didn’t have much use for the vallus either.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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#2
Randi

That is very great. I talk to you many thanks. Respekt the ancestor's.
Vallus István Big Grin <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Very Happy" />Big Grin

A sagittis Hungarorum, libera nos Domine
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#3
Bless you, Randi! Those weird things have bugged me for years! Giant hanging meat-slicers, railroad signals, alien pyramid-constructors... Your solution is a tad more likely.

Fabulous work! Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#4
Quote:... Conventional wisdom, based on the work of Otto Lendle, suggests that these are the remains of Roman siege engines called ship's prow tortoises left over from a previous assault. It is my intent to dispel this notion and replace it with a more plausible explanation of their origin and function.
I am flattered to be called "conventional wisdom", Randi! In fact, I simply popularised the brilliant theory of the late Otto Lendle, which seemed to have been ignored for 20 years. My representation of Lendle's idea can be seen as Plate E in my [amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Machinery 399 BC-AD 363[/amazon] (the Amazon "Search Inside" function doesn't show Plate E, but you can see it on the back cover, top left).

Your suggestion is certainly ingenious. As to whether it's "more plausible", I don't believe so, but each reader must make up his/her own mind.

The Name of the Machines
Quote:The ship's prow tortoise as first described by Apollodorus of Damascus in his text Poliorcetica (Siegecraft) was also triangular and could be mounted on wheels. According to his account it was designed to deflect wagons and barrels packed with logs that were rolled down at them by the defenders.

Apollodorus invented the machine, and he is the only writer who describes it. He simply calls it "the tortoise which has the shape of a ship's prow", which Lendle rendered as Schnabelschildkröte. My version, Ship's-prow Tortoise, is snappier, isn't it? :wink:

The Placing of the Machines
Quote:The first incongruity is placement. If these were used as mobile walls to deflect logs and barrels rolled down upon the Romans, one would expect to find them in disarray somewhere in the no-man's land between the fort and the besieger's lines rather than lined up neatly in echelon at the top of the slope. Two of the three barrels shown appear to be resting at the foot of the wall.
The machines were indeed deployed as mobile walls, but why would you then expect to see them in disarray? That would mean that they had failed to perform their function. And why is there a problem with two of the barrels appearing at the foot of the Dacian wall?

I think maybe you've misunderstood Apollodorus's intention (not difficult, as we still lack an English translation of the work) and overestimated the Column sculptor's artistic ability. The sculptor's intention (I think) was to depict an action scene, with three tortoises (perhaps representing many more) deflecting objects rolled down by the Dacian defenders. The barrels (and tree trunks) have been tossed from the walls and would make their way down to the Roman lines if the tortoises weren't there to deflect them.

The Structure of the Machines
Quote:The second is the structure of the machines. They have prominent triangular frames but there are no protective walls. If we are to believe, as suggested, that they are burned out hulks then we must then explain how they all burned in such a consistent manner and why the barrels next to them show no damage. Instead of defensive barriers these machines have a number of sharpened stakes and a hook or blade, all of which are facing down slope at the Romans. As a general rule, the offensive surfaces (i. e. sharp bits) of a weapon are most effective when pointed at the enemy.

Again, the sculptor has tried his best to depict a novel machine, newly invented for Trajan's Dacian Wars.

I don't know where you got the idea of "burned out hulks" from, but it is not part of Lendle's theory. The tortoises are depicted in use. Their function is to deflect rolling objects using their robust triangular frame. They are defensive structures, but the "sharp bit" is indeed pointed at the enemy! (The sculptor has spoiled the effect somewhat by depicting the oversized wheels outside the structure instead of inside.)

The Wheels on the Machines
Quote:The wheels are another significant feature. Their large diameter and placement at the outermost corners of the frame are more like those of an off-road vehicle than the iron bound rollers Apollodorus described. They would be ideal for careening at high speed down the hill, but superfluous if one were inching a heavy structure uphill in the face of enemy fire.
For whatever reason, the sculptor has misrepresented the wheels. My reconstruction of the Ship's-prow Tortoise (in [amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Machinery 399 BC-AD 363[/amazon], Plate E) follows Apollodorus's description rather than the depiction on Trajan's Column. There, you can see that the small wheels were supposed to assist the men shoving the tortoise "like a sledge". But, once you've seen what a Ship's-prow Tortoise looked like, you begin to realise what the sculptor was trying to depict on Trajan's Column.

Quote:Having established that these are almost certainly not Roman tortoises, ...
Ah, but have you?! Big Grin

Your alternative suggestion
P. Clodius Secundus\\n[quote]... Surviving images of the device showed that it bore a striking resemblance to the basic layout of these machines. They share an angular frame jutting rearwards from a transverse axle bearing a projecting row of “teethâ€
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
Reply
#5
D B Campbell\\n[quote]I am flattered to be called "conventional wisdom", Randi! In fact, I simply popularised the brilliant theory of the late Otto Lendle, which seemed to have been ignored for 20 years. My representation of Lendle's idea can be seen as Plate E in my [amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Machinery 399 BC-AD 363[/amazon] (the Amazon "Search Inside" function doesn't show Plate E, but you can see it on the back cover, top left).D B Campbell\\n[quote]
Konstantin Nossov also seems to concur with you and Lendle in his Ancient and Medieval Siege Weapons, so I counted that as three, to one. I have no doubt that your “Plate E” illustration faithfully depicts Apollodorus’ machine and its intended deployment. You and Brian Delf did a good job conforming the rendering to the scene on the column.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]My version, Ship's-prow Tortoise, is snappier, isn't it? D B Campbell\\n[quote]

Your version is indeed brief and descriptive. Have you ever thought of going into advertising? :wink:

D B Campbell\\n[quote]The machines were indeed deployed as mobile walls, but why would you then expect to see them in disarray? That would mean that they had failed to perform their function. And why is there a problem with two of the barrels appearing at the foot of the Dacian wall?D B Campbell\\n[quote]
Disorder and confusion would not mean that they had failed, just that they had been used in combat. Nice neat formations, just like battle plans don’t survive long after contact with the enemy. Two of the barrels haven’t rolled anywhere. They would first have to be rolled and then intercepted. From the distance shown couldn’t they have just dropped them on the Roman’s heads?

D B Campbell\\n[quote]I think maybe you've misunderstood Apollodorus's intention (not difficult, as we still lack an English translation of the work) and overestimated the Column sculptor's artistic ability. D B Campbell\\n[quote]
I agree completely that an English version of his text is badly needed, but it should be an unbiased translation. By that I mean that the translator should have great knowledge of classical Latin, yet be untainted by exposure to anyone else’s preconceptions.
Aside from that, am I the only one who senses a disturbing theme throughout your argument?
“overestimated the Column sculptor's artistic ability…. Again, the sculptor has tried his best to depict … The sculptor has spoiled the effect … For whatever reason, the sculptor has misrepresented….”
Nearly every one of your points depends on denigrating the ability of a stone carver chosen to work on the centerpiece of the Emperor’s legacy. This project was most likely under the supervision of Apollodorus himself. Screwing up the images of the boss’ invention would surely get you noticed in a very bad way.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]The sculptor's intention (I think) was to depict an action scene, with three tortoises (perhaps representing many more) deflecting objects rolled down by the Dacian defenders. The barrels (and tree trunks) have been tossed from the walls and would make their way down to the Roman lines if the tortoises weren't there to deflect them.?D B Campbell\\n[quote]
Your illustration is certainly an action scene, but in the original there is not much going on. The Romans are bunched up in their own lines of circumvallation and the Dacians aren’t anywhere to be seen. Where are the troops and trenches? Did that naughty sculptor forget those too? It looks more like the calm before the storm to me. Where does it say the barrels were tossed from the walls? If they break apart when rolling into a prow, wouldn’t they break apart when they hit the ground from a substantial height?

D B Campbell\\n[quote]Again, the sculptor has tried his best to depict a novel machine, newly invented for Trajan's Dacian Wars.D B Campbell\\n[quote]
Yes! Absolutely! By the Dacians and their Treveri guests.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]I don't know where you got the idea of "burned out hulks" from, but it is not part of Lendle's theory. D B Campbell\\n[quote]
My mistake, the “burned hulks” idea is from J.H.Pollen’s 1874 theory about these weapons. I tossed it in there in an effort to explain where those big wooden walls wandered off to. I hadn’t reckoned on a tortoise without a shell. Pollen did offer a pretty amusing explanation for the hooked blades and pointed bars though. What's your explanation for those? Did the sculptor just add them because he thought they'd look cool?

D B Campbell\\n[quote]The tortoises are depicted in use. Their function is to deflect rolling objects using their robust triangular frame. They are defensive structures, but the "sharp bit" is indeed pointed at the enemy! (The sculptor has spoiled the effect somewhat by depicting the oversized wheels outside the structure instead of inside.)D B Campbell\\n[quote]

He also ruined it by omitting the v-shaped iron plating.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]For whatever reason, the sculptor has misrepresented the wheels. My reconstruction of the Ship's-prow Tortoise (in [amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Machinery 399 BC-AD 363[/amazon], Plate E) follows Apollodorus's description rather than the depiction on Trajan's Column.D B Campbell\\n[quote]
Just like my reconstruction follows Trajan's Column instead of Apollodorus. The simplest explanation for the vast differences is that they are two different machines.

P. Clodius Secundus\\n[quote]Having established that these are almost certainly not Roman tortoises,... P. Clodius Secundus\\n[quote]
D B Campbell\\n[quote]Ah, but have you?! Big Grin D B Campbell\\n[quote]
I really only had to provide a more probable answer, but I figured “while I’m in the neighborhood”.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]Hmmm ... triangular frame? (Nope.) A wheel at each corner? (Nope.) Sorry, Randi -- I don't see it. Our only depiction of a reaping machine shows a rectangular frame with two wheels at the front and a man pushing at the back. Also, it's not terribly well-suited to Dacian terrain. It requires nice flat fields, which you find in Gaul (where Pliny says it was used) but not in Dacia (or, for that matter, in Italy). D B Campbell\\n[quote]
First off, the mule is pushing. The man is setting the height of the vallus. If gravity is going to do the work you can replace them both with another wheel. Second, I suggested that the Treveri brought the technology and their ingenuity with them, not that these were actual agricultural implements converted to this purpose.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]That's what the barrels and tree trunks are. The sculptor, being a good Roman, depicts the ingenious Roman response to this dirty trick -- namely, the Ship's-prow Tortoise.D B Campbell\\n[quote]
We have barrels and tree trunks, but where are the wagons? Perhaps wagons is a mis-translation or easier way of describing the Dacian Reaper. Apollodorus may not have made the obscure mental link to the agricultural vallus.

D B Campbell\\n[quote]We don't actually know when Apollodorus wrote the Poliorcetica, but it was written in anticipation of warfare. Apollodorus refers to seeing previous action with the emperor, which I take as a reference to the First Dacian War. The Poliorcetica would then have been written for Trajan's use during the Second Dacian War. Just in time for Trajan to deploy the Ship's-prow Tortoise in his attacks on the Dacian hillforts.D B Campbell\\n[quote]
IIRC there is some dispute whether or not Apollodorus went on the first campaign. His famous bridge over the Danube was built for the start of the second. If he had seen the log barrels in action with Trajan in the First Dacian War, then presumably Trajan would have seen them too, and a full recapitulation of their use would not have been necessary. If, on the other hand he were writing for the Emperor’s son Hadrian, whom he apparently considered a bit slow, such a pedantic approach might be more appropriate.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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#6
In my rebuttal to the rebuttal I mentioned J.H.Pollen's theory. In the interest of fairness I am including it here for those readers unfamiliar with his work.

…On the height are a number of warlike engines that have been employed or are brought up in order to be employed in the capture of the fort. They are triangular frames consisting of three beams forming a triangle, the beams meet in a point and are fitted on the axle of a large wheel of solid timber. At the other end the three beams fit into the axle of a pair of wheels. A beam continued beyond the single wheel passes through a barrel or barrel-shaped mass and is prolonged beyond. In the beam that forms the long axle are fitted handles for turning or straining ropes, and by the purchase obtained from this beam it seems the intention to raise the barrel, or cylinder in which sharpshooters can be raised above the breast of the wall, or combustibles can be thrown into the interior of the fort. The ends of the long axles that are nearest to the wall are furnished with sickle-shaped iron tools, intended as boring implements to be worked by turning the axle by means of the handles described.

No covering of any kind is given to the machinery of these engines or to the workmen employed in them, as will be seen by the annexed woodcut. On the other hand it is more than probable that the sculptor shows us the skeletons and more solid parts only, the protecting work having been destroyed and the engines themselves, as indeed appears to be the case, abandoned. The height of the rock and careful construction of the works on this side make this a probable solution.

John Hungerford Pollen “A Description of the Trajan Column” 2005 Adamant Media Corporation, an unabridged facsimile copy of the edition published on 1874, London
pp. 167-8


As you can see he shared my faith in the sculptor's abilities, but he believed that the barrels were connected to the frames. His explanation for the hooked blades is vastly different from mine as well. His Romanocentric view is similar to Lendle's. If nothing else this shows how people can look at the same image and draw infinitely different conclusions.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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#7
Nice work Randi, but one point I notice that you seem to have over looked are the barrels.

It appears they are all attached to a post/beam of some sort, which to me makes the a part of the contraption.

How come you have not included them? I know the one on the right in the frieze is in a different position than the other two, but the post/beam element is still in the same relationship to the barrel.

Anyone have an idea what the relationship is?

My thought is some sort of counter weight, but the overall structure is confusing in that light. :?

Still, bravo for the thought and effort into your theory!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#8
Quote:Nice work Randi, but one point I notice that you seem to have over looked are the barrels.

It appears they are all attached to a post/beam of some sort, which to me makes the a part of the contraption.

How come you have not included them? I know the one on the right in the frieze is in a different position than the other two, but the post/beam element is still in the same relationship to the barrel.

Anyone have an idea what the relationship is?

My thought is some sort of counter weight, but the overall structure is confusing in that light. :?

Still, bravo for the thought and effort into your theory!
Gaius Julius Caesar\\n[quote]

Thanks to you for joining in the discussion.
J.H.Pollen believed that the barrels and the beams that appear to run through them are part of, or somehow attached to the machines. The one on the far right appears to have moved downslope independent of "it's" machine and they all seem to have beams of different lengths while the machines are very consistent in their structure and position.
Lendle's theory suggests that they are tree trunks inserted into the barrels. Presumably they would be packed with mud or something to hold them in and add mass. I agree, and suspect that when rolled downhill it will wobble unpredictably clearing a wide path of destruction. I don't know of anyone testing a replica to see how it acts. Once our notoriously bad New England weather clears I plan to try some experiments. In the interim I will work on a scale model.
Lendle felt that they had been intercepted by the machines which are Ship's prow tortoises. I think that they are stationed behind the machines as a follow on attack if the Reapers fail to break up the anticipated Roman advance.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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#9
According to a reference I just found in an Article by David Whitehead Apollodorus' Poliorketika: Author, Date, Dedicatee, I cannot claim originality in my assertion that the mysterious engines on Trajan's Column are Dacian scythe bearing weapons. That honor apparently goes to Karl Tittel. My apologies to his memory. While humbled by this revelation, I am in a strange way heartened to know that I am not the first to notice the glaring inconsistencies in the competing theories (i.e. Pollen, Richmond, Lendle, Lepper & Frere, and any others I've missed) and propose this most obvoius of solutions.
The article mentions that Tittel's theory was championed by Cichorius himself. Not a bad ally when it comes to matters involving the column. Until proven otherwise, I retain my authorship of the weapon's possible connection to the Gallic vallus.
My research and experimentation on this subject will continue. If anyone knows of other sources or translations please PM me or post them to this discussion.
Regards,
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
Reply
#10
Hallo.

We know it punctually, that where took place the siege where the Dacian ones used this machine?
Vallus István Big Grin <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Very Happy" />Big Grin

A sagittis Hungarorum, libera nos Domine
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#11
Just thought I'd bring this (somewhat mauled) thread up-to-date. David Whitehead has just published Apollodorus Mechanicus, Siege-matters (Stuttgart, Steiner, 2010), in which he translates the Greek text into English, for the very first time.

He translates the section on "protection against things being thrown from the wall" as follows:
Quote:The tortoise, having the shape of a wedge, carried by armed men, is brought up on one-foot thick square timbers [[size=85:rylau776]being smooth as to its surface[/size]] or on wheels emanating out of the base, and it has iron (nails) so that, when set in place, it would be pegged to the ground and would not be dragged along by the collision. It will also have a diagonal timber as its face, to support it against over-turning. [[size=85:rylau776]So the result will be that the weights either fall into a diagonal trench and are carried past or hit the slanting stakes, with their diagonal alignment, and are likewise repelled, or, broken on the wedge, are carried to the sides and free the intervening space from their blow.[/size]]

The [size=85:rylau776]small text[/size] in brackets marks bits that Whitehead thinks are later interpolations. He chooses to translate embolon (which I rendered "ship's-prow") simply as "wedge". Apollodorus' sideroi could well be iron spikes, rather than Whitehead's "iron (nails)".

Interestingly, Whitehead refers to "cast 308 of Trajan's Column, which probably depicts what Apollodorus describes here" (p. 81). His Endnote (pp. 137-138), entitled "Trajan's Column and the Treatise", refers to Otto Lendle's theory that these are the machines on Trajan's Column:
Quote:I agree with those (Blyth 152-153; Campbell, Machinery 45-46, with plate E, and again Besieged 196-197) who have found Lendle's solution convincing. It will obviously follow from this that the treatise was written, and submitted to Trajan, before the beginning of the Second Dacian War.
(References in the preceding posts to my Greek and Roman Siege Machinery, 399 BC-AD 363 / Besieged got somehow mangled, so here is another link.)
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#12
Quote:He translates the section on "protection against things being thrown from the wall" as follows:
Quote:The tortoise, having the shape of a wedge, carried by armed men, is brought up on one-foot thick square timbers [[size=85:2up5d9rj]being smooth as to its surface[/size]] or on wheels emanating out of the base, and it has iron (nails) so that, when set in place, it would be pegged to the ground and would not be dragged along by the collision. It will also have a diagonal timber as its face, to support it against over-turning. [[size=85:2up5d9rj]So the result will be that the weights either fall into a diagonal trench and are carried past or hit the slanting stakes, with their diagonal alignment, and are likewise repelled, or, broken on the wedge, are carried to the sides and free the intervening space from their blow.[/size]]

The [size=85:2up5d9rj]small text[/size] in brackets marks bits that Whitehead thinks are later interpolations. He chooses to translate embolon (which I rendered "ship's-prow") simply as "wedge". Apollodorus' sideroi could well be iron spikes, rather than Whitehead's "iron (nails)".

Interestingly, Whitehead refers to "cast 308 of Trajan's Column, which probably depicts what Apollodorus describes here" (p. 81). His Endnote (pp. 137-138), entitled "Trajan's Column and the Treatise", refers to Otto Lendle's theory that these are the machines on Trajan's Column:
Quote:I agree with those (Blyth 152-153; Campbell, Machinery 45-46, with plate E, and again Besieged 196-197) who have found Lendle's solution convincing. It will obviously follow from this that the treatise was written, and submitted to Trajan, before the beginning of the Second Dacian War.
(References in the preceding posts to my Greek and Roman Siege Machinery, 399 BC-AD 363 / Besieged got somehow mangled, so here is another link.)

The central thesis of Whitehead's earlier article was that Apollodorus was writing the text for Trajan not Hadrian. As such, I'd expect that any translation of his might be biased (if only subconciously), to favor Lendle's theory. Instead, compared to the one you used in Besieged, it adds little but confusion. The ground spikes make sense, but the rest reads like the owners manual for a Korean motorcycle I used to own. I just find it far more logical that the incident on the Column where logs, barrels, and what might be interpreted as "wagons" were deployed, is the experience that led Apollodorus to design the tortoise you so ably depicted in Besieged, and later reccomend it Hadrian.
P. Clodius Secundus (Randi Richert), Legio III Cyrenaica
"Caesar\'s Conquerors"
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