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AVE, i'm new, i need informations (military equipment and role in combat)about Ligurians, Bruttians & italian Veterans for Hannibal's army at Zama.
By now i think that Ligurians and Bruttians are medium infantry latin type unit with shield, some light armour and sword, carring few javelins to throw before melee (but bruttians are veterans and stay at 3rd rank with other veterans); Italian veterans are Punic citizen and Liby-Phoeni spears witn great experience?
Where i can find a good Order of Battle of Zama on the Net?
Thanks
Bye
Totola
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Hi Totola,
The Brutii is an indigenous tribe who had been conquered & oscanized by the Lucani. The coastal people had adopted more Greek equipment, and therefore the Samnite and Brutti would generaly look similar to Lucani & Campani...
I have a book in black & white color wich depicted them, but his autor has participed here & he may not like the idea posting some of its image & stuff.
Shows one Ligurian warrior & equipment as Samnites & romans, Phoenician of the time, you may know that book already... it is from wargames research group publication....
Send me a Pm if you dont know or have this book.
Gioi.
Remarks by Philip on the Athenian Leaders:
Philip said that the Athenians were like the bust of Hermes: all mouth and dick.
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There is one very large problem with this question. It is stated that Hannibal re-equipped much of his army with Roman gear fairly soon after his arrival in Italy. Zama is many years later, and Hannibal's army was mostly out of communication with Africa for a long time. It is entirely possible that the equipment of the Libyo-Phoenicians and any Carthaginian veterans was very much like Roman gear; the Bruttians may also have changed a lot since they joined the army.
Felix Wang
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I would agree with Felix.
Do you think Hannibal started out with the phalanx and changed over to the manipular style of combat after Cannae? Or did he keep the phalanx?I don't think it was used at Zama.
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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Didn't Hannibal use 3 lines at Zama withe the cavalry at the sides. The last line composed most of the veterans of Italy. Probably most of his veteran mercenaries and his italians were equiped like the romans and maybe that his new recruits from Africa were equiped with the weapons from the arsenals of Carthage.
Geert
Tot ziens.
Geert S. (Sol Invicto Comiti)
Imperator Caesar divi Marci Antonini Pii Germanici Sarmatici ½filius divi Commodi frater divi Antonini Pii nepos divi Hadriani pronepos divi Traiani Parthici abnepos divi Nervae adnepos Lucius Septimius Severus Pius Pertinax Augustus Arabicus ½Adiabenicus Parthicus maximus pontifex maximus
The Red Comet
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1. Hannibal's Italian Veterans during the battle of Zama, consisted of mostly Bruttians, the rest were other southern Italians, there could possibly be some Gauls, Iberians, and Africans. The Italian, Gallic and Iberian troops would probably wore a combination of Greek, Italo-Attic and Roman armor and arms. While the Libyans probably wore strictly Roman arms and armor, due to what we hear about before and after the battles of Trasimeno and Cannae.
2. There is no evidence that Hannibal changed to a complete Manipular formation. Though in the later years of the war Hannibal was using two lines of infantry rather than just one. This was due to adaption, not a complete change in the formation of the army. This was brought about by the Roman soldiers and generals gaining experience and becoming better. While Hannibal's soldiers were becoming worse. This could also be brought about by the terrain of the battle fields, because we see the Romans do this as well. But none the less, there is sense in seeing that Hannibal was abandoning the Phalanx formation for a more flexible one.
3. Hannibal during the battle of Zama used the three lines for multiple reasons. One being that each line acted as an individual army. Two, it allowed the Romans to become disorganized and tired before the closed arms with Hannibal's best troops. This was not a sign of a Roman Manipular formation, a Roman Manipular formation would support each other. Hannibal's three lines were made to operate individually. Another sign of evidence was during the battle of Zama, one of the lines routed, while the line behind it was ordered to lower their spears, forcing these men to run around the formation. Thus, keeping the formation intact. This showing that there was no intervals for the fleeing troops to run through.
I know this replay is years late, but I hope it will help someone else.
