Waffen SS Battle of Berlin

[Hugh Fuller]

I heard that story when I was a little kid but I do remember that it was the LSAH SS and that it was one of the US Airborne divisions. It may not have been Dietrich himself for all that I remember, but I do know that these men weren't given to telling tall stories.

[Paullus Scipio]

It must be doubtful if the protagonist was Sepp Dietrich - he was commander of Hitler's last major Army, formed in jan '45 ( 6th SS panzer army) of whom one of the divisions was the Liebstandarte. Most of 6th SSPanzer Army was chased from Hungary into Austria in the closing days of the war, many simply melting away or surrendering to American forces, knowing the fate awaiting them if they fell into Soviet hands. Dietrich was one of these and was captured trying to escape into Switzerland with his wife, both dressed in traditional Bavariancostume :lol: and were captured. Liebstandarte, Das Reich and Wiking divisions managed to evade the Soviets and Czech partisans, and simply melted away - never formally surrendering. Hitlerjugend tried to surrender to American troops in Austria, but when a Soviet tank column appeared, they panicked and stampeded straight past the G.I.'s to abandon vehicles and melt away,many being subsequently rounded up. Its sister Frundsberg division was fighting in Czechoslovakia and was overun and destroyed by the Soviets and Czech partisans.The survivors went to the Gulags. The Totenkopf successfully surrendered to the Americans , were promptly handed over to the Soviets an also went to Stalin's Gulags. After the war many former SS men and officers in particular, were sent to trial for war crimes, including Dietrich and Peiper, formerly of the Liebstandarte....

[Robert Vermaat]

Sorry to continue this thread with yet another lengthy discussion of completely OT stuff.
But then I’m fascinated with especially the last months of fighting in Europe, and I guess there may be ties between my late Roman and Late German interests! :wink:

But there’s also still a link to Johnny Shumate’s art – I can’t help to think about those ragged soldiers, dead tired, fighting for their very homes at that moment, and still seeing the enemy forces roll over their lines with impunity.

I found the quote about the painting of SS troops in the halls of the Pentagon again. It’s mentioned in Tieke, Wilhelm: Im Feuersturm letzter Kriegsjahre, II. SS-Panzerkorps mit 9. und 10. SS=-Division „Hohenstaufen“ und „Frundsberg“ (1975, Munin Verlag 1986), p. 595. The author tells of some very friendly relationships between several US and SS officers. One of these was a major captured at the Battle of the Bulge and later exchanged for German prisoners in 1944, and happened to be present at the surrender of the 9th SS in Austria, keeping in touch with General Stadler after the war.

I guess this is, as was said earlier, more an expression of admiration between soldiers than admiration of the SS. But it happened from time to time.

It must be doubtful if the protagonist was Sepp Dietrich - he was commander of Hitler's last major Army, formed in jan '45 ( 6th SS panzer army) of whom one of the divisions was the Liebstandarte.

That’s Leibstandarte.

Dietrich was one of these and was captured trying to escape into Switzerland with his wife, both dressed in traditional Bavariancostume :lol: and were captured

Accompanied by his wife, Dietrich surrendered on May 9, 1945 to Master-Sergeant Herbert Kraus of the U.S. 36th Infantry Division at Krems an der Donau north of St. Pölten in Austria.

Most of 6th SSPanzer Army was chased from Hungary into Austria in the closing days of the war, many simply melting away or surrendering to American forces, knowing the fate awaiting them if they fell into Soviet hands.. Liebstandarte, Das Reich and Wiking divisions managed to evade the Soviets and Czech partisans, and simply melted away - never formally surrendering.

Czech partisans? The reports mention early resistance in Austria and attacks by armed former prisoners of concentration camps just before the surrender to the allied forces.
Never a formal surrender? That’s not correct.

The 2nd SS armoured division Das Reich reached the Prague area and surrendered there.

The 5th SS armoured division Wiking surrendered en bloc on May 13th to US soldiers after descending the Tauern pass. Parts of the division had been surprised by Soviet cavalry after passing through Graz and armour and had already been surrendering to the British.
Leibstandarte, or 1500 men that did not melt away trying to get home), surrendered in the night of May 5th/6th to US troops near Steyr.

The 9th SS armoured division Hohenstaufen surrendered with 18.000 men (!) after surrender talks between the 6th SS army and the 3rd US Army. Who then let all German troops across the bridge over the river Enns and into their lines until midnight of May 8th. Hohenstaufen destroys the remaining 35 pieces of armour. General Stadler surrenders his division to the 71st US Infantry division. The first laager of the division (of which the military police is re-armed by the US army) soon counts 36.000 troops. The division remains intact through June and July and even (at the request of the US Army) organises transports of released soldiers home to their families (only the transport to Berlin never returns) before the division is transported to the POW camp at Ebensee and disbanded in early July.
Parts of the division however surrendered in the Prague region.

Its sister Frundsberg division was fighting in Czechoslovakia and was overun and destroyed by the Soviets and Czech partisans.The survivors went to the Gulags.

Indeed.
The 10th SS armoured division Frundsberg was blown apart in the Spremberg area by the Soviet attack on Berlin in early April. The division splits into three main parts: the artillery (SS-Pz. AA 10), the main division and a third group of unit parts. The main group of the division is active around Dresden, and is only blown apart as a unit after may 8th, after which individuals and small columns try to reach the west. Many succeed, but also many are captured by Soviets and Czechs. The same for many of the members of the other two groups.

Hitlerjugend tried to surrender to American troops in Austria, but when a Soviet tank column appeared, they panicked and stampeded straight past the G.I.'s to abandon vehicles and melt away,many being subsequently rounded up.

A strange story?
The 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend surrendered with approximately 10.000 survivors and one surviving tank to the American 65th Infantry Division, 7th Army, near Enns in Austria on May 8th. In a final act of defiance, the division refused to drape their vehicles with white flags, as the US Army had ordered.

[Paullus Scipio]

Hi Robert !
Though OT, your post was most interesting - obviously you have more detailed sources than I - my information was gleaned from various general histories. My special interest in the NW Europe campaign runs from D-Day, through to the Battle of the Bulge, but alas, not in detail beyond that........and perhaps it should be remembered that for the last few weeks of the war there are many confused and conflicting accounts as well....making your post in detail doubly interesting!

I can't comment on the camo jacket and the equipment detail ( though I have read that there were no less than 17 and maybe more camo smock patterns put in service in the German Armed Forces - each branch etc commissioned their own....), but like you, and judging by Battle of Berlin photos I have, this chap looks a little too well-fed etc to be typical, and the photos you posted certainly give a more typical feel for those desperate times......

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Robert !My special interest in the NW Europe campaign runs from D-Day, through to the Battle of the Bulge

I can recommend this book about the Battle of the Bulge and the other book referred on that page.

[vergilius]

just saw your work.
Looks really good !!

[Paullus Scipio]

Thanks Robert!

Had both for many, many years and much more besides...... :wink:

[Narukami]

For those interested in the late war period I would offer three books for your consideration:

Max Hastings -- Armageddon: The Battle for Germany 1944-1945

http://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-German ... 306&sr=8-7

Antony Beevor -- The Fall of Berlin 1945

http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Berlin-1945- ... 392&sr=1-2

Cornelius Ryan -- The Last Battle

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Battle-Class ... 499&sr=1-3

Oh and there is always The Last 100 Days by John Toland, also a classic work.

All of these books cover the same topic yet each adds important information to the story.

:wink:

Narukami