Questions to items seen in Caerlon\'s Museum

[Cacaius]

Hello

I have been to Roman Legionary Museum in Caerlon this year and taken hundreds of pictures there.

I have found some items reconstructed (in museum's section with legionaires stuff in barracks) ..
which makes question mark on my face...

1. something for making noise when you need to call all 8 legionaires to the room or wherever .. where can I find any origins of this item ?



2. leather case for bandages and dressings .. where can I find any origins of this item ?




thanks for any help

[Carlton Bach]

#1 is called a sistrum. It's a musical instrument (and sometimes, there are dangliums attached to the loops along the side). While this was used for rhythm in perfectly normal music, it may also have gotten to the north through its association with various religious ceremonies.

#2 is a reconstructed 'capsa' for which, AFAIK, we have no surviving originals. It looks very nicely made and generally quite plausible (though why you would want to use a studded ring instead of a simple stud on leather that stiff beats me). Reconstructions tend to be based on surviving images of book containers known by the same name. these tend to be larger and fitted with an integrated locking mechanism, but otherwise look much the same. I have a few pictures of those, if you're interested.

[Cacaius]

#1 is called a sistrum. It's a musical instrument ..

Oookk .. because the lady from the museum said to visitors that it was used in barracks for making noise when for example you would like to call legionaires for a dinner or trainings or for something else ..
I was so surprised that i have never heard about something like that before .. . .so it wasnt true ?

[Carlton Bach]

#1 is called a sistrum. It's a musical instrument ..

Oookk .. because the lady from the museum said to visitors that it was used in barracks for making noise when for example you would like to call legionaires for a dinner or trainings or for something else ..
I was so surprised that i have never heard about something like that before .. . .so it wasnt true ?

I wouldn't know. I mean, just like a modern handbell or whistle, it could have been. But the likelihood is low IMO. In a military encampment full of people in mail shirts, people in segmentatae, people walking around with swords and daggers and metal-studded belts with danglia, an instrument that makes a *metallic rattling noise* may not have been the best way to get attention.

Just guessing.

[Crispvs]

The last time I was at the museum in Caerleon I asked for information on the five daggers which were found there. The women behind the counter (the only staff to be seen) were as helpful as they could be but unfortunately they did not seem to have a detailed knowledge of the contents of the museum or the history of the site. They helpfully tried to correct me, saying that only two daggers had been found and that they were both displayed in the museum. I replied that the two daggers in the museum were actually the two daggers found at Usk, a little way north of Caerleon, rather than the daggers actually found at Caerleon itself. This came as a surprise to the staff, who confessed that they did not know of any other daggers and had thought the two in the museum came from Caerleon (despite their being clearly labelled as having been found at Usk). They were kind enough to use the Usk daggers' catalogue numbers to dig out the archological reports and drawings of the Usk daggers for me but still managed to find nothing they could tell me about the Caerleon daggers.
Overall I found the women working at the museum to be friendly and very keen and willing to help. I just don't think they had the knowledge to qualify them to be working there. I later asked about the second century belt plates on display in the museum but that caused so much confusion I decided to be satified with the information on the two Usk daggers and desisted from asking about anything else. I had a bit more of a look around, then thanked them for their help and left. I am still looking for the Caerleon daggers.

Crispvs

[Vlad the Impala]

#1 is called a sistrum. It's a musical instrument (and sometimes, there are dangliums attached to the loops along the side). While this was used for rhythm in perfectly normal music, it may also have gotten to the north through its association with various religious ceremonies. .

I believe that I have a photo of an altar stone with one of these shown -when i get home Ill look

##2 is a reconstructed 'capsa' for which, AFAIK, we have no surviving originals. It looks very nicely made and generally quite plausible (though why you would want to use a studded ring instead of a simple stud on leather that stiff beats me). Reconstructions tend to be based on surviving images of book containers known by the same name. these tend to be larger and fitted with an integrated locking mechanism, but otherwise look much the same. I have a few pictures of those, if you're interested.

it looks like one i made....Ill check that- before I claim credit :lol:

if it is there is a very good reason for using the studded ring


I just happened to have one! I made one for our group using a buckle.

[mcbishop]

Overall I found the women working at the museum to be friendly and very keen and willing to help. I just don't think they had the knowledge to qualify them to be working there.

I'm sorry, but that is quite simply unfair on the museum staff. Please do not confuse the front-of-house staff - who have to man the tills, keep an eye on Joe Public's use and abuse of the collections, and give general advice and information - with the museum back office staff, who are all trained and qualified museologists whose job is to curate the collection, deal with visiting students, and who will know the collection backwards, upside down, and any which way, but who might not always be available without a prior appointment. Making an appointment is as easy as pie and guarantees a result and answers to your questions; turning up on spec and expecting the person who sells the postcards to know the intricacies of dagger attribution/location/provenance is a tall order for any museum anywhere.

Mike Bishop

[ambrosius]

Overall I found the women working at the museum to be friendly and very keen and willing to help. I just don't think they had the knowledge to qualify them to be working there.

I'm sorry, but that is quite simply unfair on the museum staff. Mike Bishop

Yeah. Who do some people think they are, coming out with blatantly
sexist remarks like that.............. Romans? :?

Ambrosius

[Crispvs]

Mike,

Good point - thanks for making it. Next time I plan to go there I will indeed make an appointment in advance. Then I will just have to hope that the programme and the public allow me to get to my appointment!

Ambrosius,

I'm confused. The staff on duty that day were both women. I do not think I was doing them any particular disservice by calling them such. Most women I know are quite happy to be called women. Would 'people' have suited you better? :wink:

Crispvs

[ambrosius]

I'm confused. The staff on duty that day were both women. I do not think I was doing them any particular disservice by calling them such. Most women I know are quite happy to be called women. Would 'people' have suited you better? :wink: Crispvs

Hey, just thinking of your image, buddy. Maybe 'people' might have made
it look like you had less of an agendum. :wink:

I've met museum curators, keepers & conservators (you know - those
folks who are really supposed to know what goes where) who haven't
a clue about their exhibits. But modesty forbids that I should mention their gender. :lol:

Ambrosius