weapons and armour of the greek marine

[Paullus Scipio]

It is mainly the chapter about the peltasts who were later equipped by Iphicrates with spears and oval peltes

... I think there may be some vase depictions which have been interpreted as oval, but they may also be circular and the artist has tried to show them at an angle.......
Geala said;

that the Macedonian phalangites were also trained with javelins,,

.....there is plenty of evidence for this, most of which, but not all, Luke refers to.

that the peltasts = mercenaries did not use javelins for a long time and that the thureophoroi did not use javelins (I think they were all-round soldiers with javelins and spear).

...I am inclined to think this too, but in that case if you believe in 'dual armed' mercenaries, why not 'dual armed' phalangites? The phalangites have more need of a weapon when the sarissa is unsuitable, after all.

Stefanos said:

The fisrt contact that Greeks had with rectangular shields was at the 7th century B.C. at the western colonies

...what is the source for this please ? Do you mean with Italian rectangular shields?
And don't forget they also had contact with Egyptian 'long shields' but even so I don't believe the Thureos was used in Greece until after the Gallic invasions......

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I think he is refering to some rectangular shields shown in geometric vases,Paul.Stafanos posted some pics in the other thread,I think.

[spartacus-033]

ok thanks
would they use grieves and shoes in the event of an amphibious assult?

[hoplite14gr]

Depends on availability of items and time needed for preparation.
In some operations an infantry battle followed immediatly after a naval battle.
Kind regards


P.S. Paul the Greek colonies in Spain had been established from 800 B.C as trading posts and Massalia (Marselles) is said to be older than 650 B.C.
So Greeks were aware of these shields and I trust you saw the link in the thread I mentioned.

Kind regards

[Paullus Scipio]

P.S. Paul the Greek colonies in Spain had been established from 800 B.C as trading posts and Massalia (Marselles) is said to be older than 650 B.C.
So Greeks were aware of these shields and I trust you saw the link in the thread I mentioned.

....if you are thinking of Gallic shields, the earliest depiction of Gallic use of th 'long' rectangular ovoid shield is the 4th century Hallstadt scabbard, AFIK. Celts did not have the scutum/thureoi -type shield until they saw it in Italy, after their invasion of the Po valley.

[Paullus Scipio]

......ah, I finally found the post you meant, Stefanos - you might have made it easier if you had at least named the thread it was in !

That cup is difficult interpret because of its crudity, the alternating squares and circles are clearly ina pattern and might not be intended to represent shields at all, though shields are likely what is intended. I'd be happier if there were some more evidence for 'square/rectangular' shields.

[hoplite14gr]

My opinion is that they were aware of various shield types.
Considering that tradition weighted heavily at that times I cannot argue that use of "exotic shields" would be widespread in mainland Greece but more probable in the armies of the colonies.

To clarify: I consider any non round shield "exotic" but what we perceive as "Greek shield" with exception of the "thracian shield" that was known from the bronze age (warrior vase.) .

And a question square shield in the West is 4th century B.C. as you say.
The same applies foe "eliptic" or other non round shield?
Kind regards

[geala]

ok thanks
would they use grieves and shoes in the event of an amphibious assult?

Sometimes I get the feeling everything on earth is in vain. Makes me a bit tired... :lol:

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Julius Pollux in his Onomastikon speaking about the weapons of the trireme's crew.
"ta de ton empleonton aspides,thorakes,knimides,krani,ksifi,dorydrepana,xeires sidirai"
"those on deck shields,cuirasses,greaves,helmets,swords,sickle spears,'iron hands'"
Here the text in Greek,in the first paragraph
http://www.hellenicpantheon.gr/Pollux1a.htm
So the marines could be fully armed with greaves and thorakes.
Khairete
Giannis

[Praefectusclassis]

That's a second century AD dictionary however, so he may be describing a more modern situation. Was a grappling device like the 'iron hands' used by classical Greeks?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

maybe he's judging from his period,however he's describing a trireme's crew and for example Plato is talking about a sickle spear used by an Athenian hoplomachos on a trireme.The result was that the weapon stuck somewhere and the hoplomachos nearly died trying to retrieve it while the enemy were attacking :lol: .I don't know about iron hands.I thought I'd heard them somewhere,probably Thucydides?Or maybe i'm confusing them with the "dolfins" or something?
Khaire
Giannis

[D B Campbell]

A special marine weapon was the "dorydrepanon" (δορυδρέπανον) that is a sickle-spear.

Appian says that, at Naulochus in 36 B.C., Agrippa's harpax device was so successful because the enemy "had not fitted sickles (drepana) to poles (dorasi)" (BCiv 5.119). So maybe your dorydrepanon wasn't standard issue?

btw Interesting new avatar, Giannis. Doesn't leave a lot to the imagination!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Interesting about the detachable sickles.But I think it would mean the dorydrepanon was the usual spear shaft but instead of the simple spear point they removed it and used the dorydrepanon points.However Appian does not use the word dorydrepanon but only drepanon...

About my avatar...I posted pics here http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 127#161127
and explained some things about his...clothes :oops:

[Praefectusclassis]

however he's describing a trireme's crew

It's not like they'd gone out of service by then. Far from it.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Do you mean that there were triremes,with the same size and structure,in the 2nd c AD? That is many centuries of service!!