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aitor iriarte · 10-03-2004, 07:50 AM

Lucius, 
I'm afraid that the Dura design is the only one so far preserved for the back of a shield, therefore, you must either stick to it or use your imagination... 
 
Aitor

**Robert Vermaat** · 10-03-2004, 10:42 AM

Hi Lucius, 
 
Scuta may not have been painted on the back at all. A good example of this is the Villa Romana del Casale mosaics (aka Piazza Armerina), which' mosaic of 'The Great Hunt' shows ample detail. Lots of shields are shown, most or all painted on the front. However, [url=http://sights.seindal.dk/photo/2874,s456f.html" target="top]this one[/url] shows a shield from the back, which does not seem to be painted at all. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 10-03-2004, 05:38 PM

Hi Aitor and Robert, 
I hope you guys are doing well! Thanks for the info on the designs for the reverse of the shields. I think that since no other examples have been found, I may paint the back of mine with a design based on other extant Roman artwork. Robert, I'm sure you are correct that some or even most shields may not have been painted, but the Dura example does prove that at least sometimes a soldier had the liberty to personalize his equipment. Since I am an artist, I cannot just go with a plain back... Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

10-03-2004, 06:57 PM

Avete Omnes, 
 
I'm painting the back of mine green with a white chi-rho on it. 
 
Valete, 
 
Cicero [url=http://www.freewebs.com/davekufner" target="top]www.freewebs.com/davekufner[/url]

**Robert Vermaat** · 10-03-2004, 10:22 PM

Hi Lucius, 
 
I painted the backs of two of my 4 shields, and I've asked a professional artist to do number 3 soon. In fact only the dished one is still plain.. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 10-04-2004, 09:06 PM

Hi Robert! 
That sounds good! What kind of design do you think you'll go with? I'm soaking rawhide "Dog chew bones" right now to edge mine with. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda BrittanicaEdited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luciusaureliusmetellus@romanarmytalk>Lucius Aurelius Metellus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/Lucius.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 10/4/04 11:08 pm

**Robert Vermaat** · 10-06-2004, 04:08 PM

I've chosen a scene from the Vatican MS of the Vergilius Romanus (Vergil MSS Vat. lat. 3867= Romanus), but I'm not yet sure which one. 
Either this one: 
<img src="http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/vergilcave.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
Aeneas and Dido in cave. Aeneid 4.160ff. 
 
Or this one: 
<img src="http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/vergil100v.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
Convivium of Dido. Aeneid 4.77. 
 
Which one do you think I should chose? The upper is more 'military', but the bottom one may fit better on a shield. Both are assumed to have been from a possibly 5th-c. British MS, according to the historian/archaeologist Ken Dark. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 10/6/04 6:12 pm

aitor iriarte · 10-06-2004, 04:23 PM

Robert, 
I wouldn't use any of them for a shield. They depict peaceful scenes no matter if from the Aeneid! The surviving scenes on shield boards are filled (except for that warrior god) with battle or hunting scenes. 
If you're talking about the back of the shield, it would be wasteful to paint such a complicated motif there, where only the owner would be able to see it! 
Just my opinion. 
 
Aitor

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 10-06-2004, 05:42 PM

Hi Robert, 
I don't know...they are both very beautiful. I think that if I had to choose, though, I like the second one a bit better, but I would be equally happy with either of them. 
For mine, I have taken soldiers from the Arch of Constantine, and several from the Villa in Italy shown in the picture whose link you gave in a previous post and blended the two into a scene of my own making. I also took away the attic helmets of the soldiers and re-drew them with ridge helmets. I'll show it to you when I'm done painting it. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

**Robert Vermaat** · 10-06-2004, 05:47 PM

Hi Aitor, 
 
Thanks for that opinion, I value it. But would such a painting not be just that - for the owner? The front would show the unit design, the back any private painting the owner would like to look at. 
In fact, this was what I had in mind - a homely sncene which could be something like a modern picture, to remember his family by. Just a thought. 
 
Practically though, the shield is a display shield we will be carrying with us, and in that function it will have a dual role as shield and cultural billboard. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

aitor iriarte · 10-08-2004, 07:33 AM

Robert, 
I shall not climb stupidly to a soap-box and start lecturing on what late Romans did or did not but, in my opinion a shield (unless intended for combat sports or display purposes, i.e. that belonging to a high ranker) was for the soldiers an item as expendable as a spear or a plumbata. If it had 'seen' action a couple of times, probably the most sensible choice would be to strip the metal fittings from the battered board and to order a new one. Therefore, not much decoration apart from the frontal shield blazon should be expected... 
Anyway, there were units that didn't engage battle for years and, of course, the soldier could probably paint what he pleased at the back of his shield! 
 
Jeffrey, 
Here goes a [url=http://icon.stoa.org/gallery/album53/Hinton_St_Mary_Mosaic_P7270034?full=1" target="top]link[/url] to the central image at the Hinton-St. Mary (Dorset, England) mosaic. Probably the earliest depiction of Jesus (Fourth century?) in Western art. 
 
Aitor

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 10-08-2004, 02:01 PM

Wow! Thanks Aitor! That is EXACTLY what I was looking for! And the source is even from the country of my impression! Wow! Thank you so much for your help! 
 
 
---Jeffrey--- Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda BrittanicaEdited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luciusaureliusmetellus@romanarmytalk>Lucius Aurelius Metellus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/Lucius.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 10/8/04 4:03 pm

**Robert Vermaat** · 10-08-2004, 02:18 PM

Aitor, 
 
I absolutely agree. Shields were expendable, but in time of boredom.. 
 
Jeffrey, 
 
I used a combination of that Mary St. Hinton head with the wall-painting from the Lullingstone villa for one of my shields: 
<img src="http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/lullingstonegroot.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 10-08-2004, 05:14 PM

Hi Robert, 
Yes, I saw your version on the Segontium list, it is very beautiful, and you did an outstanding job! 
I was going to paint a military scene on the back of mine, but thanks to Aitor's photo and his help, I have changed my mind and the design I was planning. I will now go with a religious scene instead. I think a soldier's personal painting on the back could have been exactly as you say, a picture he did in his boredom, to remember something he cherished and longed for, such as home and his family, or something he loved to do, such as hunting or fishing, or even an inspirational image such as a religious picture to help bolster his spirit in bad times such as war. True, probably not all soldiers had the time or even the skill to decorate their shields, but it is certainly possible that some did. 
When I was in Army basic training, I had a picture of a dragon drawn in ink on the fabric cover of my helmet, and the drill sergeants never said a word to me about it! I did it in my free time (which was extremely limited then), just as a soldier in those days might have done. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

caiusbeerquitius · 10-11-2004, 01:37 PM

Lucius, where do you have the two oics from? I am especially interested in the wood carving... is it published? 
THX, Caius

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