Lorica Segmentata / common error

[Jona Lendering]

Every Roman soldier wore a lorica segmentata. Asterix is sufficient evidence. Not.

What do you think is the origin of this misunderstanding? Is it Asterix? Something else?

[jvrjenivs]

I think Asterix had some part in it, but isn't the main reason. I think that the sholars of Ancient history/archeology have some imput in this misunderstanding. The idea of uniformity was (and is still) widespread. This combined with a legionairy on TC wearing what we call a segmentata makes a legionairy wears a segmentata, all the time.

[Jona Lendering]

TC?

[Nathan Ross]

Whose false perception are you talking about here? Children who read Asterix books, the public at large, or 'interested' grown-ups who should know better?

As far as the public at large, several of whom may well have read Asterix as kids (though I think the books are more popular on the continent than in the UK), I don't really think there's much of a great consensus on the 'actual' appearance of Roman legionaries anyway. Ask most people what a Roman soldier looked like, and they're likely (I'd guess) to suggest a brown leather muscle breastplate, a skirt and helmet with a brush on top. Actually, I'd guess further that not wearing trousers is a more common 'Roman' stereotype than wearing any particular kind of armour! The presentation of soldiers in HBO/BBC 'Rome' was faulty in many ways, but at least they were wearing mail - and as far as I know nobody complained that they were incorrectly dressed.

For the 'interested', whether historians or not, I'd agree that Trajan's Column is probably a more compelling source of (possibly) false impressions - after all, the Romans themselves built it, so it must be right...

- Nathan

[Aulus Perrinius]

Well to be fair, a seg would be cheaper than mail

[Jona Lendering]

Whose false perception are you talking about here? Children who read Asterix books, the public at large, or 'interested' grown-ups who should know better?

All groups together, sort of. I get the impression that many people believe that the background of Asterix is well-researched; just like many people realize that Don Quixotte is fictional, but instinctively believe that the novels that made him crazy, really existed. Or that the background of the story of the Wrath of Achilles, the Trojan War, is a historical fact. Too often have I met well-educated people who believed that ancient Lutetia was called "the city of cities", or that the Gauls erected menhirs, or that all Roman soldiers wore the same lorica.

As far as the public at large ... I don't really think there's much of a great consensus on the 'actual' appearance of Roman legionaries anyway.

I had not thought of this.

Trajan's Column

Which explains the mysterious abbreviation Jurjen used.

As far as I am concerned, I think that the idea that Roman soldiers are all dressed the same has its roots in the passion plays; using the same pattern must have been easy.

PS
The novels that drove the good knight from La Mancha insane, did exist. I'm not sure about the Trojan War. It's a strange fallacy that we easily accept the background of a story.

[Robert Vermaat]

I blame Asterix of course. If you don't know enough about your subject, do a quick search (not to deep) and fake the rest. Sometimes the result is hilarious.
Which, in this case, will give you the 'traditional' (ha!) Roman legionary ina segmentata.

Over here, they usually end up with the hamata-clad trooper from the book 'Verleden Land', which is not bad in itself.
We had a new sign put up for a cylce path from Bunnik to Houten, on which they mentioned a 'legionarius'... Whatever that means. (%$#@&). I think I'm going to visit it with a black pen one of these days... :roll:

[Jona Lendering]

We had a new sign put up for a cylce path from Bunnik to Houten, on which they mentioned a 'legionarius'... Whatever that means. (%$#@&).

Well, be happy that you don't live in Nijmegen opposite the Porta Romanum, aren't the author of Roma Victor, or didn't invent Via Belgica.

I think I'm going to visit it with a black pen one of these days... :roll:

I can live with silly names, but newspapers ought to check their facts better. Last month, even a good newspaper (NRC Handelsblad), managed to print four errors - one serious, three less - so I wrote a letter. I got the impression they wanted to do something about it, but didn't know what.

[Robert Vermaat]

Well, be happy that you don't live in Nijmegen opposite the Porta Romanum.

It's worse than that Jim, ehh Jona.

Despite my best effort, Houten will be 'blessed' by a second town centre (Castellum) with streetnames such as:

Porta Basilica
Porta Tegula
Porta Toga
Cella Asia
Cella Syria
Cella Gallia
Fossa Italica
Fossa Iberica
Fossa Hispanica
Via Tunica (argh...)
Via Horta (double argh...)
Via Arena (triple.. well, you know)
Piazza (which will soon become 'Pizza', I want to bet)...

I managed to squeeze in a Forum and a Cardo, but the damage was done years before, by a Latinist from Utrecht no less. :x

[Doc]

Nathan,

I agree with you. I thought I knew some things about the Roman army and Roman history in general before I started to get into it as seriously as I am now. Some of the things I knew are still correct but many others are not. For instance, in the begining, I thought that scuta were of metal since it is stronger than wood. The lorica for the soldiers was entirely musculata of leather and for the wealthy of metal with gold or silver (I thought mail was middle age armor and I never heard of segmentata or squamata). I did not know that soldiers had a pugio only the gladius. I thought closed boots not caligae for eveybody.

[Jona Lendering]

I managed to squeeze in a Forum and a Cardo, but the damage was done years before, by a Latinist from Utrecht no less. :x

Ever heard of Nieuwegein's notorious Arresleedrift?

[Robert Vermaat]

I managed to squeeze in a Forum and a Cardo, but the damage was done years before, by a Latinist from Utrecht no less. :x

Ever heard of Nieuwegein's notorious Arresleedrift?

Arresleedrift? Is that perhaps inspired by the movie 'Santa's Slay'?
But back to topic now.

[Robert Vermaat]

Graham asked me to add this to the discussion:

"All Cities, Towns and Villages throughout the Roman Empire should have their street signs illustrated by yours truly!"
(personally, I think the armour of the legionary on the right is incorrect) :lol:

[Doc]

The man on the right looks like a Spanish conquistador. Then again if it is late Roman there may be things that I do not know about.

[Ron Andrea]

The guy on the left looks great (except, of course, for the crest).

The guy on the right looks like late Medieval, perhaps even Civil War--like the infantry of Cromweels' new army?