Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Quote:Slightly off topic (and I will do a search on here) has the South Shields (Arbeia) mail shirt been discussed anywhere - found in 1997 and in pride of place in the museum?
Noticed in Britannia 29 (1998) p. 385 ("Roman Britain in 1997") with Plate XXXII.A, it seems to have been discussed in Arbeia Journal 6/7 (2001) pp. 55-60 -- I haven't seen this report (but would love to, if any kind person can oblige). :wink:
Posts: 3,063
Threads: 218
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
2
Quote:Vindex:h6gche6c Wrote:Slightly off topic (and I will do a search on here) has the South Shields (Arbeia) mail shirt been discussed anywhere - found in 1997 and in pride of place in the museum?
Noticed in Britannia 29 (1998) p. 385 ("Roman Britain in 1997") with Plate XXXII.A, it seems to have been discussed in Arbeia Journal 6/7 (2001) pp. 55-60 -- I haven't seen this report (but would love to, if any kind person can oblige). :wink:
Sent you PM!
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Quote:Sent you PM!
Now I wonder what that could be about! :wink:
Posts: 3,063
Threads: 218
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
2
There's a domed perspex lid over the shirt which is jolly annoying but here are some piccies:
Top one shows what I think is the neck - if you look carefully you can see a square section with a 'V' in the front (NOT supported by the report!), then a close up of the mail (riveted) and then the whole shirt. It was found between two layers of burnt daub which is why it is preserved (this hasn't been post ex cleaned as it didn't need it) and appears to have fallen to the floor during the fire in the barrack block and landed in a heap. I think you can see the neck in the middle and the outer edges are the sleeves such as they were. This is all of it and from the report weighed in at 5.44Kg.
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Thanks for creating the new thread, whoever you are. Nice editing job! :wink:
Posts: 3,063
Threads: 218
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
2
Quote:Thanks for creating the new thread, whoever you are. Nice editing job! :wink:
LOL! I thought you did it!!
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Posts: 15,118
Threads: 417
Joined: Mar 2002
Reputation:
79
Posts: 3,079
Threads: 50
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation:
20
What really fascinated me when I first saw it twelve years ago was that it was so well preserved that you could easily see tiny holes where rivets had been lost from some of the rings in antiquity. I had never hoped in my wildest dreams to see a mail shirt so well preserved. Plenty of surviving mail shirts from the centuries following the migration period look like little more than rather worn bricks which have to be closely examined in order to see the remains of the rings themselves. The state of preservation of the Arbeia shirt is truly remarkable.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
Posts: 3,063
Threads: 218
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
2
I agree Crispvs - it is an impressive piece of craftsmanship.
One can only imagine that the off duty soldier who lost it in the fire was heartbroken! It was found in one of the ordinary barrack rooms, by the way, not the officer's quarters, although there is a theory that the room could possibly have been a workshop (two hearths instead of one) and the shirt was in for repair, or just finished.
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Posts: 723
Threads: 15
Joined: Aug 2006
Reputation:
1
Laudes for everyone! Great pictures despite the conditions.
And thank you for mentioning the weight.
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil
Ron Andrea
Posts: 2,913
Threads: 21
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation:
1
I was very lucky to have a good look at this chain mail when I managed to get the museum to remove the cover for my friend Erik Schmid to do some photography of it for his studies, in fact I got most of the other museums in the area and Scotland to help by giving access to their pieces also.
Brian Stobbs
Posts: 31
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
0
What fascinating material. It's composition and fineness certainly puts paid to the many (highly annoying) arguments I've had to face over Roman and Antiquity mail being somehow different in it's protective qualities compared to Medieval mail.
Alexander Hunt, Mercenary Economist-for-hire, modeller, amateur historian, debater and amateur wargames designer. May have been involved in the conquest of Baktria.
Posts: 655
Threads: 67
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation:
0
An absolute gem of a find.
Do we know roughly what the ring diameter and thickness of the rings were?
I am curious if we might know the length of the shirt and the length of the sleeves.
5.44 kg is roughly 12 pounds. Now while that might not be interesting in itself, what I find very interesting is that the two 6mm Roman pattern maille shirts that I own each come out weighing 12 pounds.
By what I can tell, it appears that the shirt is a bit later in that it does not appear to have a doubler. Do we know/or have a suspected date of when the find took place?
This shirt would make in amazing article in AW.
Thanks for posting this.
R/
Mike Daniels
a.k.a
Titus Minicius Parthicus
Legio VI FFC.
If not me...who?
If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
Posts: 3,079
Threads: 50
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation:
20
I believe that the shirt was found in the burnt remains of a third century barrack block some time in 1997. At the time I recall that members of Cohors Quinta Gallorum did some tests dropping their own mail shirts and found that the overall mass of the mail was similar to that of theirs and that theirs sometimes landed in similar shaped heaps to the excavated example. I somehow doubt that we will ever know the original shape of the piece.
Mike Bishop will probably know more, or alternatively you could contact Alex Croom at Arbeia, who is bound to know a good deal about it. Tony Drake (Brennius on RAT) also lives and works up there so he may know more as well.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
Posts: 13,279
Threads: 102
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
I have a couple of piles on my floor that look very similar.
I had the same problem when I tried to get photos of this, compounded by the auto-focus on the camera picking the perspex as its subject of choice. :x Couldn't get the manual focus to co-operate either, so good pictures!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
|