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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Dana Adler states:

"I would suspect that he had no idea of abandoning his troops, he just wanted to split Boudicca's force and deal with her piecemeal so that his men had the advantage of numbers."


Well according to all the accounts if he did travel south of the Thames, he failed dismally in splitting her forces as allegedly Boudica brought 230,000 people with her.

Although he was recalled after losing his ships this was very near the time that you would have expected him to be replaced anyway. Also a new strategy was needed and he hadn't changed his methodology to adapt but continued to wipe out the Brythons.

On his recall he does not appear to have been disgraced and becomes a consul for the second time in AD66 and in AD69 was a senior general in Otho's army.
Deryk
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My take on this, having read the entire thread and its associated links !!

Council of War held, hosted by Iceni who are a bit peed off by their treatment by their new landlords, as are their southern neighbours. Representatives of other tribes present. Muster north of Colchester and subsequent sack thereof. But not before messages of help! are sent to SP in north wales and VIIII Hisp. Iceni scouts report move south of part of said legion, which is not really all that unexpected, is subsequently taken by surprise and the infantry wiped out. Surviving cavalry escape back north to camp with the rest of the Ninth. Britons (or Brythons for Deryk) party. The hangovers could have taken weeks to clear up. A good excuse to wait for other tribes while engaging in Ritual beloved of archaeologists.

SP meanwhile hightails it down Watling street WITH his available Legion and other units (never leave home without them when traveling through hostile country). Arrives in the small port of Londinium to find Cato has done a runner with the petty cash, along with anyone else with the brass (or silver or gold more likely) for passage to Gaul. Unprepared for a siege, short of ready's and other necessities (Cato also took all the garum but left all the wheat) SP decides it is un defensible. Sp sends messages. To the Ninth to hold the midlands and block any movement south by the fearsome Brigantian Federation (can you tell where my sympathies lie?). To the Second for re-enforcement and to keep an eye on the South west and to block any move east by the pesky Silures. Cerialis is happy to comply and sits behind his stout walls with the remains of the Ninth. The Legate and his broadstripe take part of the Second north, leaving the unhappy camp prefect to hold Isca with the Vets of II AVG .He also gets a further message from SP to send re-enforcements NOW. Possibly sends message to his legate who replies to stay put because he is BUSY. Torn between conflicting orders and in an increasingly fluid situationi he does the traditional wait and see, don't stick your neck out, don't try anything fancy type millitary resonse. Also messages sent to all outlying auxiliary units to rendezvous with him for the big 'do'.

Sp leaves Londinium by the back door, burning any supplies which may have been of use to the enemy, crosses the Thames to Southwark. Aware of the imminent arrival of the Britons he moves west, hopping to meet up with II AVG at this nice little spot he knows. Boudicca follows (cue ominous music) burning and doing a bit of pillaging along the way. Movement would be slow due to the speed of the oxen and the need to procure more beer. Maybe the odd chip butty. Parsnip chips of course. (i'm thinking football crowd behaviour here- clearly a link with a ritualised tribal past). SP arrives in Staines, still no II AVG, have they got lost? Probably not. Its a straight road but you never know who is hiding in the bushes ready to waylay messengers. Sick of waiting and with his eye on his rear but he is in no real hurry, he can get more of a wobble on if he needs to... SP marches his troops to his SP (special place). The rest is History. Oh, the special place....

Certainly to my (small) mind west of Staines, maybe north west, but not more than 2 days march. Somewhere around Tring is my bet. I like Slaughter as a site, but that's a bit too obvious. Having seen Cunetio on Time Team (takes cover from irate archaeologists - there was nothing else on - 'onest guv) I can see why it was initially attractive. The slope, the hills and the wood looked spot on. Today. While the stream and its associated bog is nice defensibly, especially if you have lots of missile troops, it would be no good to pursue and destroy the enemy.

Well that's it I think. Anyone got a metal detector? I've got a shovel..... and a big spoon
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Could be Kevin's wish has come true. A new, RAT credited, book on our topic has just been published, seemingly by one of our contributors;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vengeful-Queen-D...eful+Queen
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and here's the hard copy http://www.cambriabooks.co.uk/product/th...ryk-cundy/
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I got my copy in the post yesterday, and it is big, A4+ with stacks of plans and images, lots of good material drawn together in one hard copy place. A great deal of the RAT thread is documented with additional stuff, thanks Deryk
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Quote:A great deal of the RAT thread is documented
Does that mean that the contributors to that thread get royalties? Wink
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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John1 wrote:
A great deal of the RAT thread is documented

Robert Vermaat wrote:
Does that mean that the contributors to that thread get royalties? Wink

My interpretation is that the RAT thread is reflected (with direct quotes being obtained with those contributors' permission) but please read it to decide for yourself Smile
Deryk
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I've also enjoyed reading through Deryk's opus 'The Vengeful Queen' (thanks, Deryk!). The first part covers Caesar's Gallic war and expedition to Britain, then the Claudian invasion and the subsequent Roman conquest of the south-east and Wales. The last third or so is about Boudica's uprising. It's a neat summary of a lot of the material covered on this lengthy thread, with some helpful maps and illustrations added.

The final proposed battle site, which Deryk names as Chivery Top, is the one near Tring outlined on here many pages back. I still think it's a good site, although my reservations remain about the size of the suggested area and the division of the Roman forces. Nevertheless, it's refreshing to see it all presented in print, and perhaps it will spur others to engage with this (apparently inexhaustible?) topic!
Nathan Ross
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The BBC, and therefore I assume their academic consultant (Prof. Aldhouse-Green), are sticking to the Mancetter/Paulerpury line;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zt9y34j#orb-banner

The map seems to point to Mancetter.

Guessing Boudica is likely to be the subject of Episode 3;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06h7x5f

Episode 1 saw revelations about Celtic origins by philology rather than Haplogroups R1a and R1b which seemed a bit dated too.
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she is going to be back on Monday;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03562h0
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Quote:she is going to be back on Monday

It was all going so well until she got the blue paint out... ;-)
Nathan Ross
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They were talking about her on Simon Mayo's Radio 2 programme last night.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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Thanks Moi, it's here at 18:00 minutes in;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06g7qk7

Phillip Crummy pours scorn on the Kings Cross theory.
Mayo talks over, and cuts short, the Horrible Histories anthem...... :x :x
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John wrote:

she is going to be back on Monday;

Quite interesting - the first program concentrates on the final battle of the Gallic War with the defeat of the "Celts" as the presenters term them, at the siege of Alesia in 52 BC. This was one of Caesar's finest hours. Yet he with an army of 20,000 was unable to defeat the Brythons in 54BC and left with little to show for his expensive expeditions.

It will be interesting to see how the program deals with the Brythons (apart from the face painting of course Smile )
Deryk
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He came, he saw, he went home again. If it wasn't for his writing we in Britain would never have guessed, as far as I know there is no other evidence, or is there? Trade contacts yes, but military invasion? There maybe another saga herein....
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