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Spartan pederasty?
#63
Quote:I have to say that I haven't been keeping as close tabs on my beloved Greek history as much as I would like to this year, having been studying art instead! Still, I have read some things relevant to the subject, so I would like to bring it up again. Please keep in mind, I've had a bit of liquid courage, so I apologise if anything doesn't make sense. Smile

I read Cartledge's writings on the subject, which is something I should have done a long time ago - instead, I relied on those first hand sources. But Cartledge brought an important and modern perspective. Cartledge, though seemingly inconclusive, still points further to the direction that the Spartans practiced sexual pederasty, while I continue to see it is chaste - (this is to clarify not reflective of my current political views, as I'm certainly not conservative, rather this is my judgement over what I have read). Cartledge, however, still considers the subject inconclusive, despite the information we have. Which I certainly respect, rather than going all gospel on something that is still unproven and subjective. Certainly, the prospect of sexual pederasty seems still likely - Cartledge mentions it appearing later in the 5th century BC, if any time at all - which I figure is a reflection of Xenophon stating whether or not the Spartans still follow Lykurgos' law in his writing. With that source, it's dubious. So as far as I'm concerned, it's completely unconfirmed, with both sides having their share of decent sources. Again, though - nothing should be taken as gospel. All that bothers me is the continuing accepted fact in a lot of professional writings that the Spartans did indeed practice sexual pederasty, when that can not be as of yet proven. This does not bother me if it weren't for the fact that this is a dominating view of their society to non-historians, supposedly if only for the fact that it would be illegal in the modern western world. It bothers me because there is so much more to their culture that people are clearly missing.

Lastly, I see this post may seem as if I'm acting that Cartledge is the essential resource on Spartans - I don't see it that way at all. This is just my response to what he has written in regards to their pederasty.

First of all dont worry about little liquid courage, i just came home from a tavern and i drunk so much wine that i think it will come off my ears :lol: .

I wouldnt mind that much about Cartledge. If we are ready to doubt sources and go further, why cant we doubt a guy that just had a theory. I cant see anywhere that pederasty was institution, quite the opposite.
By the way i read Spartans of Cartledge and found it one of the worse writen books i ever read. Back and forth back and forth recycling material that was sufficient for a book only 1/3 of the original size.
aka Yannis
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Molon lave
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Messages In This Thread
Spartan pederasty? - by Matt15 - 03-26-2007, 05:33 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by caiusbeerquitius - 03-26-2007, 07:08 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Anonymous - 03-26-2007, 09:56 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by hoplite14gr - 03-26-2007, 10:35 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Matt15 - 03-26-2007, 09:54 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Zenodoros - 03-27-2007, 03:16 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Marcus F. - 03-27-2007, 02:08 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Zenodoros - 03-27-2007, 02:38 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Dan Diffendale - 03-27-2007, 02:52 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-27-2007, 05:45 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-27-2007, 07:57 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Tarbicus - 03-27-2007, 08:01 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-27-2007, 08:03 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 03-28-2007, 12:32 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Zenodoros - 03-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Marcus F. - 03-28-2007, 12:51 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 03-28-2007, 01:39 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by hoplite14gr - 03-29-2007, 01:31 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by geala - 04-05-2007, 03:46 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 04-06-2007, 12:00 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 04-06-2007, 09:53 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Marius_Ursus - 04-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Hoplitesmores - 04-06-2007, 04:09 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Marcus F. - 04-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by hoplite14gr - 04-11-2007, 06:58 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by geala - 04-13-2007, 06:00 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Idomeneas - 04-13-2007, 11:19 PM
My two copper... - by sword121 - 07-12-2008, 08:16 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Kineas - 07-13-2008, 04:10 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by sword121 - 07-13-2008, 04:55 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Paralus - 07-13-2008, 04:10 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-14-2008, 06:40 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by hoplite14gr - 07-14-2008, 07:17 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-14-2008, 07:28 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-14-2008, 07:38 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-14-2008, 08:45 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Timotheus - 07-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-15-2008, 02:07 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-15-2008, 03:11 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-15-2008, 04:35 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-15-2008, 04:41 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-15-2008, 09:35 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Aryaman2 - 07-17-2008, 11:02 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-17-2008, 02:01 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Idomeneas - 07-19-2008, 10:57 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-22-2008, 12:35 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-22-2008, 12:42 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Aryaman2 - 07-23-2008, 08:42 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Jona Lendering - 07-23-2008, 10:04 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Aryaman2 - 07-23-2008, 01:50 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 07-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 07-23-2008, 02:59 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by mpags - 08-01-2008, 03:34 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Paralus - 08-01-2008, 04:45 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Magnus - 08-01-2008, 06:59 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 08-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 08-05-2008, 04:03 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Zenodoros - 09-26-2008, 02:51 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 09-26-2008, 03:18 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Idomeneas - 09-26-2008, 11:44 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Paralus - 09-27-2008, 02:43 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by PMBardunias - 09-27-2008, 04:03 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Alanus - 09-27-2008, 04:58 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Endre Fodstad - 09-27-2008, 07:42 AM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Zenodoros - 09-27-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 09-27-2008, 02:30 PM
Re: Spartan pederasty? - by Paralus - 09-28-2008, 01:46 AM

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