01-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Giannis
This is the last time I will comment on this to your good self. You clearly a very passionate, knowledgable young man who has done a lot of research on his subject BUT YOUNG is the operative word.
You are right this is a forum for discussion and to give one's opinions but I feel you should temper some of your opinions a little. If I recall correctly Ewan asked if anyone knew if there was a maker of Aspides in the UK or Germany NOT for a diatribe on the failings of the Hoplite Association.
We use pottery as one of our major sources for the re-construction of kit.
You have very kindly provided us with examples from contemporary source material showing both shallow and deep dished aspides YET you deny the existance of the latter?? Is this not a contradictory stance??
There are as many deep in these illustrations as shallow - but you do not trust these? How odd? ... and I think there might be some misunderstanding of the word shallow as well with hindsight. You means less inner depth, I refer to the angle of the bowl slope.
The issue is as much to do with bowl shape as depth - to have the porpax INSIDE the shield you are looking at 16-17cms inner depth. So look at illustrations and look at where the porpax comes to. Ours are around that depth. Shape dictates the degree to which it slides off your shoulder - as in its useability as a shield.
Again you provide us with some wonderful images of some of the few examples of original aspides in existance but this this is just a very small window into the world of 700-800 years of shield construction and therefore not a fair representation of what was in use across the whole of the Hellas.
Bottom line, whatever YOUR opinion of our shields, we don't use plastic!!!! We make 95% of what we use and and have indeed many compliments on what we try to achieve some from very well respected sources/academics/authors. Our patterns were used for Oliver Stone's Alexander (later period I know) and we have have one of our linothoraxs on display in the British Museum. We have also done work for the British Museum and have appeared/been featured in 5, I think, books of reference recently. We must be doing something right eh?? :wink:
So young man before you Damn your peers so vehemently may I respectfully suggest that you take the time to attend/take part in some proper events/displays, take a look at some of the wonderful kit out there that some people who cannot afford the Manning Imperial route, take a lot of time and care in manufacturing as accurately as possible. Also take the time to handle some of the Aspides that you say you have not and maybe try and make one yourself!!
Also, most ironically :lol: if you take the time to have a good look on our website www.hoplites.org click on some of the events you WILL see that we use both shallow and deep dished aspides - one of mine for example, with the Dolphin on is such a shield which I believe if you look, my good friend Stephanos (Hoplite14) has posted pictures of on the "show me your Greek Warrior impression" thread........ :wink:
Happy hunting young Hoplite!!
Kind regards
Ferox
Demetrius - I have seen your thread and will answer when I have a little more time. Best wishes.
This is the last time I will comment on this to your good self. You clearly a very passionate, knowledgable young man who has done a lot of research on his subject BUT YOUNG is the operative word.
You are right this is a forum for discussion and to give one's opinions but I feel you should temper some of your opinions a little. If I recall correctly Ewan asked if anyone knew if there was a maker of Aspides in the UK or Germany NOT for a diatribe on the failings of the Hoplite Association.
We use pottery as one of our major sources for the re-construction of kit.
You have very kindly provided us with examples from contemporary source material showing both shallow and deep dished aspides YET you deny the existance of the latter?? Is this not a contradictory stance??
There are as many deep in these illustrations as shallow - but you do not trust these? How odd? ... and I think there might be some misunderstanding of the word shallow as well with hindsight. You means less inner depth, I refer to the angle of the bowl slope.
The issue is as much to do with bowl shape as depth - to have the porpax INSIDE the shield you are looking at 16-17cms inner depth. So look at illustrations and look at where the porpax comes to. Ours are around that depth. Shape dictates the degree to which it slides off your shoulder - as in its useability as a shield.
Again you provide us with some wonderful images of some of the few examples of original aspides in existance but this this is just a very small window into the world of 700-800 years of shield construction and therefore not a fair representation of what was in use across the whole of the Hellas.
Bottom line, whatever YOUR opinion of our shields, we don't use plastic!!!! We make 95% of what we use and and have indeed many compliments on what we try to achieve some from very well respected sources/academics/authors. Our patterns were used for Oliver Stone's Alexander (later period I know) and we have have one of our linothoraxs on display in the British Museum. We have also done work for the British Museum and have appeared/been featured in 5, I think, books of reference recently. We must be doing something right eh?? :wink:
So young man before you Damn your peers so vehemently may I respectfully suggest that you take the time to attend/take part in some proper events/displays, take a look at some of the wonderful kit out there that some people who cannot afford the Manning Imperial route, take a lot of time and care in manufacturing as accurately as possible. Also take the time to handle some of the Aspides that you say you have not and maybe try and make one yourself!!
Also, most ironically :lol: if you take the time to have a good look on our website www.hoplites.org click on some of the events you WILL see that we use both shallow and deep dished aspides - one of mine for example, with the Dolphin on is such a shield which I believe if you look, my good friend Stephanos (Hoplite14) has posted pictures of on the "show me your Greek Warrior impression" thread........ :wink:
Happy hunting young Hoplite!!
Kind regards
Ferox
Demetrius - I have seen your thread and will answer when I have a little more time. Best wishes.
Noli Nothis permittere te terere!!
Mark.
Mark.
