05-31-2007, 12:12 AM
By way of contrast to the above figures, here are some which I think come from Alan Williams "The Knight and the Blast Furnace".
Alas, where they are quoted no context is given and as we have seen, that makes all the difference.
5mm cuir-boulli requires 20 joules for spear/lance to penetrate, or 50 joules with a blade stab.90 joules for a sword cut/slash
10 mm cuir-boulli, increased to 30 joules for spear/lance and 90 joules for blade stab.
!.9 mm munition plate ( i.e. not especially hard ) 100 joules for spear/lance, 190 joules for blade stab
mail - 120 joule to pierce
Layered linen ( in view of Dan Howard's posts, presumably loose /quilted and not glued ?? )
5 layers -100 joules
9 layers -120 joules
16 layers- 140 joules
23 layers- 160 joules
26 layers -180 joules
There seems to be something suspiciously high about the latter figures, and Williams has been criticised for being "armour biased" and under estimating weapon force and kinetic energy ( but I believe most estimates/trials/calculations are probably too high for real battle conditions.
Perhaps Dan and others with access to this source can elaborate for us ?
What were the conditions of these figures? Practical tests ?( and if so, quasi static or dynamic or both ) Calculated/estimated ? ( if so, then to be treated with great caution ).
If the figures are appropriate, then the ones for linen give food for thought.
If hoplite tube-and thorax corselets were made of this, then in the light of Blyth's figures, the protection was way more than adequate, and there would have been no need to re-inforce them with scales etc against Persian archery. Similarly, if linen was this effective, then given its other advantages ( lightness etc ) why was it not more widely used ??
We need to know more !
Alas, where they are quoted no context is given and as we have seen, that makes all the difference.
5mm cuir-boulli requires 20 joules for spear/lance to penetrate, or 50 joules with a blade stab.90 joules for a sword cut/slash
10 mm cuir-boulli, increased to 30 joules for spear/lance and 90 joules for blade stab.
!.9 mm munition plate ( i.e. not especially hard ) 100 joules for spear/lance, 190 joules for blade stab
mail - 120 joule to pierce
Layered linen ( in view of Dan Howard's posts, presumably loose /quilted and not glued ?? )
5 layers -100 joules
9 layers -120 joules
16 layers- 140 joules
23 layers- 160 joules
26 layers -180 joules
There seems to be something suspiciously high about the latter figures, and Williams has been criticised for being "armour biased" and under estimating weapon force and kinetic energy ( but I believe most estimates/trials/calculations are probably too high for real battle conditions.
Perhaps Dan and others with access to this source can elaborate for us ?
What were the conditions of these figures? Practical tests ?( and if so, quasi static or dynamic or both ) Calculated/estimated ? ( if so, then to be treated with great caution ).
If the figures are appropriate, then the ones for linen give food for thought.
If hoplite tube-and thorax corselets were made of this, then in the light of Blyth's figures, the protection was way more than adequate, and there would have been no need to re-inforce them with scales etc against Persian archery. Similarly, if linen was this effective, then given its other advantages ( lightness etc ) why was it not more widely used ??
We need to know more !
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
