06-10-2007, 06:08 AM
Sorry, Giannis, I can accept the plausible "cloth arguments", but the "one piece" part would be too much for me. 
The lower parts of the chitons are depicted very skilfully with the typical vertical pleats. The upper parts are totally different. Another garment worn over the chiton would explain the pictures better than a false depiction of the one chiton.
A chiton would not behave like the one in the first picture. What is a point for you is the bulky appearance above the girdle but the fur like "waves" on the upper body cannot be explained. A fur over-garment would be a better explanation than the lost of ability by the artist. :wink:
(Same for the arming scene: I would say that two of the hoplites wear some thick garments over their chitons and beneath the composite cuirass; which reminds me that the left hoplite (putting on his greaves) has no cuirass nearby at all, perhaps only using the thick over garment.)
The second picture is not so clear, however. I would have never imagined it as the depiction of one chiton but when I look at it with your perizoma idea in mind, it could be possible. But I still prefer to interprete it as a second thick over garment. Mostly because a chiton in the upper parts would not behave like it. In addition the lower hem of the chiton is shown in one line. The hem of the short sleeves is shown with a double line. That could be easily interpreted as a thicker material and therefore a different garment. I concede that it has not to be interpreted as layered, it could also resemble thick wool. The lower hem of the over garment is not shown with two lines because you look to it from another degree (perhaps overinterpretation).
The lower parts of the chitons are depicted very skilfully with the typical vertical pleats. The upper parts are totally different. Another garment worn over the chiton would explain the pictures better than a false depiction of the one chiton.
A chiton would not behave like the one in the first picture. What is a point for you is the bulky appearance above the girdle but the fur like "waves" on the upper body cannot be explained. A fur over-garment would be a better explanation than the lost of ability by the artist. :wink:
(Same for the arming scene: I would say that two of the hoplites wear some thick garments over their chitons and beneath the composite cuirass; which reminds me that the left hoplite (putting on his greaves) has no cuirass nearby at all, perhaps only using the thick over garment.)
The second picture is not so clear, however. I would have never imagined it as the depiction of one chiton but when I look at it with your perizoma idea in mind, it could be possible. But I still prefer to interprete it as a second thick over garment. Mostly because a chiton in the upper parts would not behave like it. In addition the lower hem of the chiton is shown in one line. The hem of the short sleeves is shown with a double line. That could be easily interpreted as a thicker material and therefore a different garment. I concede that it has not to be interpreted as layered, it could also resemble thick wool. The lower hem of the over garment is not shown with two lines because you look to it from another degree (perhaps overinterpretation).
Wolfgang Zeiler
