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Onward and Upward - Carthaginian reenacting
#30
Quote:I guess it's about time to make a contribution, and see if I can clear up a few outstanding points.
First, it should be remembered that Carthage was the centre of a vast mercantile empire,and its mother city, Tyre, was in the middle of the seleucid empire - only 10 days or so by sea away. Carthage was also so wealthy that it repaid crippling war indemnities to Rome, early, more than once. It could thus afford to arm its own troops with the choicest of imported arms, including thracian or any other Hellenistic equipment.Thracian helmets were particularly popular with Etruscans, with whom Carthage had long-standing trade/alliances.

This should probably be the subject of an extensive study, but I don't think that extensive trade necessarily coincides with adoption of styles of weaponry and equipment. It seems to me at least that the adoption of different styles of arms and armour was almost entirely dependent on military contact between peoples - be them friendly, as allies or subjects, or unfriendly, as enemies.

Quote:But all this need not concern Dan, who wishes to concentrate on Hannibal's war !!
It is this which led Connolly to interpret the relief in "Greece and Rome at War" as mail but this is highly unlikely - first because the shoulder fastenings are Hellenistic ties, and nothing like mail fastenings, and second because the reliefs at Kbor Klib and Chemtou, though they show Aspides, Hellenistic helmets and corselets, and were once dated on this basis to Hellenistic times actually date to late republican times (c.105 B.C -jugurthine war, orc.46 B.C. -Caesar defeats Pompeians ) because they are identical in style (to the point where they might have been done by the same sculptor) to late Republican sculpture in Rome.They are no guide at all to Carthaginian armour.

By "late Republican sculpture in Rome," are you referring to the monument erected by Sulla c. 91 BC?

Quote:other than a single tomb relief, the tomb of Abd-asart ( servant of Astarte), apparently a numidian with a Carthaginian name. We don't know which side he fought on, but his tomb shows his armament as thureos, simple helmet (like pilos, or Negau type - similar to the trophy 'Persian' helmet ar Olympia - which could be that of a phoenician marine)

Would you possible be able to provide me the citation for this item? My sources for the Carthaginians are pretty pitiful at the moment and I'd like to increase them.

Quote:He is armed with two longche/lancea -and we should lay a myth to rest here. Polybius refers to peltast-type troops in Hannibal's army called Longchophoroi which the translator in the Loeb edition mis-translated as "pikemen" !!! They are, in fact, armed with the short spear ( for throwing or thrusting ) called Longche - lancea in latin !

That's probably one of the most insidious errors in translations of ancient military literature! I remember the same idea being passed around about the Caucasian Iberians, who were for the longest time touted as pikemen.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Messages In This Thread
carthaginian impression - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2007, 10:18 AM
carthaginian impression - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2007, 10:37 AM
carthaginian impression - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2007, 11:11 AM
carthaginian impression - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2007, 11:38 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-11-2007, 09:19 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-11-2007, 11:58 PM
Re: Onward and Upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-12-2007, 12:54 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-12-2007, 04:41 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-12-2007, 05:55 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-12-2007, 08:43 AM
Onward and Upward ! - by Paullus Scipio - 06-13-2007, 02:06 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-13-2007, 05:23 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-13-2007, 08:01 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-13-2007, 09:15 AM
Onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-14-2007, 11:44 PM
Onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-15-2007, 12:46 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-15-2007, 02:37 AM
Helmets - by zugislander - 06-15-2007, 03:42 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-15-2007, 04:04 AM
onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-15-2007, 04:14 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-15-2007, 06:24 AM
Phrygian Helmets - by zugislander - 06-16-2007, 05:39 PM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-16-2007, 10:38 PM
Re: Onward and Upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-17-2007, 08:22 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-18-2007, 03:40 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-18-2007, 05:36 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by geala - 06-18-2007, 07:49 AM
Re: Onward and upward - by MeinPanzer - 06-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-19-2007, 08:55 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-19-2007, 10:40 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-20-2007, 02:02 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 06-20-2007, 08:59 AM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 09-05-2007, 07:54 PM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 09-07-2007, 09:06 PM
Re: Onward and Upward - by MeinPanzer - 09-21-2007, 10:44 AM
Onward and upward - by Paullus Scipio - 09-21-2007, 01:23 PM
re - by Johnny Shumate - 09-21-2007, 02:24 PM
Eubolos - by Johnny Shumate - 09-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Carthaginians - by Paullus Scipio - 09-25-2007, 11:07 PM
Onward and Upward - by Paullus Scipio - 09-26-2007, 03:14 AM
Re: re - by geala - 09-26-2007, 06:30 AM
Re: Eubolos - by Duncan Head - 09-27-2007, 02:41 PM
Re: Onward and Upward - Carthaginian reenacting - by marcus_the_barbary_lion - 10-31-2007, 09:00 AM
carthaginian dress up time - by kistlerj - 11-14-2007, 09:41 PM
Carthaginian Impression - by Paullus Scipio - 09-22-2008, 06:08 AM
Re: Carthaginian Impression - by barcid - 09-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Punic war veteran - by Paullus Scipio - 09-23-2008, 02:40 AM
Re: re - by MeinPanzer - 12-01-2008, 01:10 AM
Photos of Carthaginian reenacting - by Ben Kane - 02-14-2010, 09:59 PM

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