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EUREKA - Roman army troops
Well after sending Cambridge a book proposal in August 2008, last week I finally received a reply from them rejecting the offer. But The Military Press asked for a sample of the work via email. Within three hours they replied they were very interested. It is more than likely the other publishing houses haven’t taken me seriously. But once anyone sees the material, it is a different story. At present due to the research material needed to finish the book, of which is not available in Thailand, I have (reluctantly) returned to Australia for three to four months. And I am counting of the days to when I can return. Landed on a Sunday and was back in Melbourne University on Monday. While there Professor Ronald Ridley was against my concept of three volumes. Since then The Military Press have been asking me to present my case for three books. The problem with the book has mainly been me. I keep getting insights into the Roman legion that I feel I have to cover. Example being, when I did the frontages for the battle of Pharsalus, with Pompey’s troops ten deep and Caesar’s at standard deployment, when comparing to two armies, you start to get a good idea of the order they must have left the camps to deploy. This means more to write about. And this is where the camel’s back broke. It was getting too much.

But now happily I have abandoned that attitude and have decided at a later date to write an in-depth book about ancient battles. This way I am back to focusing on organisation and tactics. So now instead of three, it will be one book. Military Press are happy, as is Professor Ronald Ridley.

They say “the real history is secret history” and this cannot be further from the truth, as a piece of secret history has emerged. Originally, as the population grew, the Romans increased the size of the tribes. Call this system A. Then they increased the number of tribes (system B), but sometime way before the Second Punic War, they reintroduced system A. Now logically, you would think system A came back into fashion after 241 BC, when the tribes were halted at 35. But this is not so. The Romans have reintroduced system A before this while at the same time increasing the tribes. This has been difficult process to ascertain when, so I have left it and concentrated on other time frames before and after this period. The uncovered area of time I have nicknamed the Stalingrad pocket. Overtime I go back and slowly and methodically scratch away at the pocket, slowly reducing it size (time frame). Now when system A re-enters the equation, the tribes will increase fourfold. Without the fourfold increase, the Romans cannot have the manpower for the First Punic war and Polybius’ levy figures of 225 BC cannot be reconciled. Whether this fourfold increase happened in one hit or in phases was the six million dollar collection.

Livy gives some clues that have helped me eliminate some time frames. By comparing the levy system to Livy’s statement of “all the iuniores were called up,” or “all the classes” were call up, even a reference to the levying of the proletarii and capti censi, showed no doubling of the tribes has occurred as the Romans are struggling to meet the large levies demanded by the military situation there were in at the time. The year 360 BC is a good indicator of how many legions were levied as Livy records two consuls are on campaign as is a dictator. The last time this occurred was in 494 BC. Unfortunately these two incidents have not drawn any attention from academics. Next method I tried was the census figures. Now generally new tribes are added after there is an announcement of peoples being made citizens, so I then combed through the primary sources looking for incidents of new citizenship but without the forming of tribes following it. No clues here. So in this section of the book, like the panzers, I was bogged in the mud in front of Moscow. I then went back to a legion reform, and realised the number in the levy formulae must have changed to coincide with the legion reform. When I applied this, it showed a doubling of the number which results in a doubling of the tribes. So now I had the doubling and the fourfold, it now need to prove if there was a threefold incidences. With the doubling, because of the change in the numbers of men in a tribe, mathematically the levy system or those tribes exempt from the levy had returned to the original Servian methodology of 530 BC. Knowing this, it was easy to find the threefold increase. So after being a thorn in my side for over a year, the Stalingrad pocket has been eliminated. My mistake was in believing the growth in the tribes was due to an increase in population. This is why using the census figures did not work. I am now convinced each tribal increase was due to “economic prosperity.” As more people gained wealth, they qualified to be registered in the tribes. The first doubling, which occurred with a reform of the legion, simplified all systems (tribal, military and political).

Now this whole exercise has thrown light on the census figures. There are three definitions in the primary sources to the role of the census. Because they contradict, academics automatically theorise on which is correct, but I’m starting to find out they are all correct and one and the same. So now, because of the insights gained from the fourfold increase in the tribe, and armed with 500 years of tribal data, I feel confident to write in the book who the census figures represent. Now if Mommsen was alive today, he would be very happy with my conclusion.
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Messages In This Thread
EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-11-2007, 03:39 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Magnus - 08-11-2007, 04:14 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-13-2007, 03:33 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 08-13-2007, 04:35 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-15-2007, 05:00 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by maius - 08-15-2007, 06:55 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-17-2007, 02:51 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 08-17-2007, 07:19 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-18-2007, 06:00 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 08-18-2007, 06:19 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 08-18-2007, 10:40 AM
Roman math - by richard - 08-18-2007, 11:18 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 08-19-2007, 05:55 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-20-2007, 03:39 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 08-20-2007, 04:27 AM
Eureka! - by Paullus Scipio - 08-20-2007, 06:46 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 08-21-2007, 07:25 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 08-22-2007, 12:59 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 08-22-2007, 03:15 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-10-2007, 05:58 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-10-2007, 07:00 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 09-10-2007, 07:31 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-12-2007, 06:40 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sardaukar - 09-12-2007, 08:17 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by SigniferOne - 09-12-2007, 06:10 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 09-13-2007, 06:22 AM
Re: Eureka - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 09-13-2007, 06:40 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sardaukar - 09-13-2007, 07:58 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sardaukar - 09-13-2007, 08:24 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-13-2007, 09:08 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-13-2007, 09:12 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 09-13-2007, 10:22 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 09-13-2007, 11:10 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-13-2007, 09:19 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-14-2007, 05:17 AM
Eureka - by philsidnell - 09-14-2007, 08:53 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 09-14-2007, 09:55 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Ross Cowan - 09-14-2007, 10:19 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-15-2007, 05:08 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 09-15-2007, 09:29 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Thersites - 09-16-2007, 07:42 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-17-2007, 02:54 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 09-17-2007, 06:43 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-19-2007, 03:59 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-19-2007, 04:24 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 09-19-2007, 08:48 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 09-19-2007, 08:51 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-19-2007, 09:18 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 09-19-2007, 10:59 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-20-2007, 03:18 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 09-20-2007, 06:30 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-20-2007, 07:36 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-26-2007, 03:06 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 09-26-2007, 06:06 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-28-2007, 05:30 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 09-28-2007, 06:40 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew - 09-30-2007, 11:12 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-01-2007, 03:48 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-01-2007, 04:04 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Mithras - 10-01-2007, 10:15 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-05-2007, 06:28 AM
Eureka - by Paullus Scipio - 10-05-2007, 07:25 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-06-2007, 03:44 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-06-2007, 03:46 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 10-06-2007, 05:59 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 10-06-2007, 09:51 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 10-06-2007, 12:47 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sardaukar - 10-06-2007, 04:50 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-13-2007, 04:21 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-15-2007, 09:07 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-26-2007, 04:33 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew - 11-29-2007, 02:04 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-01-2007, 03:05 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew - 12-01-2007, 04:20 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-05-2007, 03:04 AM
Eureka - Roman Army units - by Paullus Scipio - 12-05-2007, 04:27 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-06-2007, 05:09 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 01-06-2008, 07:04 AM
EUREKA -Roman troops - by Paullus Scipio - 01-06-2008, 07:15 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 01-06-2008, 03:47 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 01-06-2008, 06:56 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Thersites - 11-18-2008, 10:05 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Tarbicus - 11-18-2008, 11:45 PM
Eureka! - by Paullus Scipio - 11-19-2008, 01:09 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Thersites - 11-20-2008, 10:35 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Lothia - 11-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-25-2008, 04:38 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-28-2008, 07:37 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 11-28-2008, 10:32 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 11-28-2008, 04:55 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-29-2008, 05:14 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-29-2008, 05:39 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-01-2008, 02:37 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-02-2008, 03:02 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-02-2008, 03:08 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-02-2008, 09:41 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 12-02-2008, 04:45 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-07-2008, 10:35 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 01-28-2009, 10:32 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Vincula - 01-28-2009, 03:34 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 01-29-2009, 08:26 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by SigniferOne - 02-02-2009, 03:51 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-06-2009, 09:08 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 02-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 02-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 02-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by SigniferOne - 02-06-2009, 04:42 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-06-2009, 05:52 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by SigniferOne - 02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 02-06-2009, 07:12 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-07-2009, 10:49 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 02-13-2009, 10:12 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-14-2009, 07:16 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-14-2009, 04:17 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew - 02-15-2009, 07:34 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-16-2009, 03:40 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 02-16-2009, 10:18 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 02-22-2009, 04:37 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Cave Equum - 03-04-2009, 12:54 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Gorgon - 04-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 04-13-2009, 03:20 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Gorgon - 04-13-2009, 03:30 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 04-28-2009, 06:30 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Gorgon - 04-28-2009, 02:12 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 05-02-2009, 01:53 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-01-2009, 01:03 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-01-2009, 01:36 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Epictetus - 12-01-2009, 01:57 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-01-2009, 02:22 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-02-2009, 12:25 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-02-2009, 12:25 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-04-2009, 04:17 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-04-2009, 08:20 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-04-2009, 09:17 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by mcbishop - 12-04-2009, 12:30 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-04-2009, 01:00 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-04-2009, 01:34 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-11-2009, 05:09 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-11-2009, 09:41 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-11-2009, 10:49 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-12-2009, 04:45 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-12-2009, 05:05 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Epictetus - 12-12-2009, 06:03 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by mcbishop - 12-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-13-2009, 03:21 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-14-2009, 03:50 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-14-2009, 04:15 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 12-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Cheyenne - 12-14-2009, 11:15 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 12-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-16-2009, 04:32 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Alexandr K - 12-17-2009, 06:43 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-18-2009, 04:22 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 12-18-2009, 04:57 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 12-18-2009, 05:23 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 12-18-2009, 02:20 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by mcbishop - 12-19-2009, 12:12 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-21-2009, 02:31 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-21-2009, 02:32 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-21-2009, 02:32 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Epictetus - 12-21-2009, 06:37 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-21-2009, 10:03 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by M. Demetrius - 12-21-2009, 01:24 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 12-23-2009, 03:00 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 12-23-2009, 06:15 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 12-26-2009, 03:25 AM
Re: Eureka - by D B Campbell - 12-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by philsidnell - 09-09-2010, 03:36 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 09-22-2010, 03:54 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by adonys - 10-06-2010, 09:18 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Sean Manning - 10-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-08-2010, 03:07 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by jkaler48 - 10-08-2010, 03:50 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Epictetus - 10-08-2010, 07:05 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew Amt - 10-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by jkaler48 - 10-08-2010, 05:17 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 10-31-2010, 04:47 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by nickw - 10-31-2010, 06:37 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Matthew Amt - 10-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by D B Campbell - 10-31-2010, 09:29 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by antiochus - 11-14-2010, 11:58 PM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by nickw - 11-16-2010, 09:51 AM
Re: EUREKA - Roman army troops - by Cheyenne - 11-16-2010, 05:02 PM

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