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Spartan hype?
#13
"Paullus: I noted that you portray the Spartans as engaging the enemy in Demi-phylae of 6 men. Can you tell me why you believe this was so? (as opposed to deploying into full phylae from enomotia)

Paul"

.....(sigh! ) Sad roll:
However, I have been studying ancient warfare for more than 35 years, continuously, and have not reached certain conclusions without a lot of thought. That does not mean I can refer to 'certainties' - there are none, short of the "time-machine" referred to elsewhere - merely what I believe to be the most inherently likely, given what few pieces of information are there. Studying ancient history in particular is fraught with frustration at just how little data we have to play with - I have likened it elsewhere to trying to do a jigsaw with large numbers of pieces missing !! Which is half the fun, I guess. Smile

I'm afraid a full answer to your question would take up a thesis, on its own, and involve the study of everything we are told about the Spartan Army, and consideration and weighing up of all surviving ancient drill manuals, not to mention personal experience in drill and drill instruction, but I shall try to give a short answer.

I shall assume you are familiar with Spartan military practices. The depth of the phalanx depended on the number of age classes called out. At Leuctra, we know the Spartan phalanx was drawn 12 deep (Xenophon tells us so ), thus each enomotia in 3 files.The tricky part is that we are not told directly the interval between files -"open" (6ft) or "closed"(3ft)
The later Makedonian Phalanx drew up 16 deep in "open order" to manouevre, but "closed up" to 3ft, 8 deep, to fight (see Arrian et al), by the rear half of the file filling the intervals, on the 'shield side'.This corresponds to Xenophon's forming each file (he uses the word lochos) in twos (or half files)- see Cyropaedia. Xenophon also tells us elsewhere that the ten thousand were able to open their ranks at Cunaxa to let cavalry etc go through harmlessly, and that Agesilaus does the same at Coronea to let Thebans through. In addition, the "laconian countermarch" to the rear is done just like a modern military band reversing direction, and this requires intervals between men. This, and much more, convinces me that manouevre was carried out in "open order" i.e. 6ft intervals.
However, like everyone else, combat took place in close order - a continuous 'shield wall' - see both Xenophon and Thucydides.This means "close order" (3ft ), with the rear half of the file closed up i.e. 6 deep. Xenophon also tells us the Spartan view on depth through the fictional words of Cyrus in the Cyropaedia; "When a phalanx is too deep for the men to reach the enemy with their weapons, what harm do you think they do to the enemy or good to their friends? ". A depth of six would allow , say, the three front ranks to engage, two ranks to replace casualties plus the 'file-closers' in the sixth rank to keep order.

Convinced ?? Smile ) )
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Messages In This Thread
Spartan hype? - by hoplite07 - 08-12-2007, 05:29 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-12-2007, 05:52 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by hoplite07 - 08-12-2007, 06:28 PM
Spartan Hype? - by Paullus Scipio - 08-13-2007, 03:59 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Zenodoros - 08-13-2007, 05:35 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Aetius Helvius Merula - 08-13-2007, 06:43 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-13-2007, 07:00 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by geala - 08-13-2007, 07:31 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-13-2007, 04:06 PM
Spartan hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-13-2007, 08:45 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by qcarr - 08-13-2007, 09:23 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-14-2007, 03:06 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-14-2007, 03:57 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Paullus Scipio - 08-14-2007, 11:32 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-15-2007, 12:53 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Paullus Scipio - 08-15-2007, 02:56 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by F. Antili Oregensis - 08-15-2007, 04:58 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-15-2007, 06:01 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-15-2007, 06:03 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-15-2007, 07:37 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by geala - 08-15-2007, 12:06 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-15-2007, 04:11 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-15-2007, 04:22 PM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-15-2007, 11:17 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Paullus Scipio - 08-16-2007, 04:59 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 07:11 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007, 12:10 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007, 02:27 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-17-2007, 02:43 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007, 06:17 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007, 10:46 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by Idomeneas - 08-18-2007, 12:45 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-18-2007, 02:25 AM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-18-2007, 03:49 AM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Spartan Hype - by Paullus Scipio - 08-18-2007, 08:55 PM
Re: Spartan hype? - by PMBardunias - 08-19-2007, 04:28 AM

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