Spartan hype?

[PMBardunias]

They didn't have a choice ! Leadership among Greek city states in Alliance was always fraught with difficuly - we hear of leadership/pride of place being alternated on a daily basis because Allies could not agree.

This has nothing to do with my doubting Xenophon. You would be amazed at how many things I get my kids to do that they think was their idea. They could have demanded alternation of days as you point out, then done a Varro and chosen the day to fight. Since so many of the allied forces on both sides were Arcadians, the chances of the battle occuring in Laconia would seem pretty slim. Surely you agree it was at least weighted against a Laconian battle site (there are so few).

Hardly !! I thought it was me who was arguing for sophisticated Spartan tactics/drill/ manouever on the Battlefield, and you saying that the Spartans could barely move from open order to close order??
You seem to have changed your ground !

The marching band at my university can do this drill as well, but to my knowledge they fight in disarray.

I do not doubt that spartans could do all of the things you describe, and some you haven't. Being able to do it in special circumstances does not mean it was regularly used in the anscestral struggle of hoplite-vs-hoplite.

First you say they charged at the run, herd instinct takes over and they lose formation, then you say they fought with overlapped shields in synapsismos 'locked shields' - 1 cubit per man fontage, 18 imches, 45 cm , packed tightly and only able to shuffle forward slowly? ?

Lets agree to suspend this for now, but I will clarify a bit. I believe that they formed for the advance in close order, probably shields overlapped. The they advanced. The confusion stems from the fact that I have conceeded the notion that they cannot hold formation in the charge, for there are many who believe this. I am of two minds and I believe as you do that this is exaggerated. Whatever happened in the charge they had to reform/stay formed to engage, again with overlapped shields.

There are many things which have been suggested, like hoplites crashing into the enemy phalanx like kamikazi rams at the end of the charge, that I don't necessarily agree with, but alter my scheme little should they be true. Your 6 rank hypothesis falls into this. Other things- like opened order fighting- are irreconsilable for me.