09-06-2007, 11:48 PM
Since this briefly summarises the situation with Classical Greek crests, it is perhaps worth repeating here as a basis of discussion........
The whole question of Greek helmet crests is a bit of a conundrum. Originally, on pottery crests were almost universal, but on actual finds there were seldom if ever any crest fittings found - so which was it? Crests or no crests?
The answer, as you might expect is more complex and there are still gaps. As re-enactors will tell you, you need to store an erect horsehair crest flat or otherwise it gradually goes floppy - so crests need to be detachable.
In Attic pottery, down to the times of the Persian Wars, only mythical subjects were shown, and although often dressed in contemporary equipment(Hopla ), the Gods and Heroes were invariably shown crested, including the archaic raised crest.
From the time of the Persian Wars on, Attic pottery started to depict'current events' and we see Athenian soldiers fighting Persians. Many of these are shown with no crests. At around this time too theSiphnian Treaury was erected and it was decorated with a relief of a battle between Gods and Giants, dressed as contemporary Hoplites, and again many are crest-less.
The present view is that from around the time of the Persian Wars, the vast majority of Hoplites would probably not have had crests, but since a panoply was an individual thing, the more expensive might have chosen to have crests, or as you mentioned, crests might have been the preserve of officers - certainly strategoi (generals) are described as wearing triple crests ( see other thread). There are IIRC at least two crests depicted as sideways on Corinthian helmets, one the statuette presumed to be a Spartan because of his long hair ( see Paul Bardunias' avatar on this site) and another on a pot painting ( I think). By analogy with Roman Centurions crests, it is guessed that these 'sideways' crests represent officers, but since the whole front rank of a phalanx were officers, special recognition was hardly needed and it is more likely that these are just personal whim.
This is only a short version of what is a complex subject ! :wink:
The whole question of Greek helmet crests is a bit of a conundrum. Originally, on pottery crests were almost universal, but on actual finds there were seldom if ever any crest fittings found - so which was it? Crests or no crests?
The answer, as you might expect is more complex and there are still gaps. As re-enactors will tell you, you need to store an erect horsehair crest flat or otherwise it gradually goes floppy - so crests need to be detachable.
In Attic pottery, down to the times of the Persian Wars, only mythical subjects were shown, and although often dressed in contemporary equipment(Hopla ), the Gods and Heroes were invariably shown crested, including the archaic raised crest.
From the time of the Persian Wars on, Attic pottery started to depict'current events' and we see Athenian soldiers fighting Persians. Many of these are shown with no crests. At around this time too theSiphnian Treaury was erected and it was decorated with a relief of a battle between Gods and Giants, dressed as contemporary Hoplites, and again many are crest-less.
The present view is that from around the time of the Persian Wars, the vast majority of Hoplites would probably not have had crests, but since a panoply was an individual thing, the more expensive might have chosen to have crests, or as you mentioned, crests might have been the preserve of officers - certainly strategoi (generals) are described as wearing triple crests ( see other thread). There are IIRC at least two crests depicted as sideways on Corinthian helmets, one the statuette presumed to be a Spartan because of his long hair ( see Paul Bardunias' avatar on this site) and another on a pot painting ( I think). By analogy with Roman Centurions crests, it is guessed that these 'sideways' crests represent officers, but since the whole front rank of a phalanx were officers, special recognition was hardly needed and it is more likely that these are just personal whim.
This is only a short version of what is a complex subject ! :wink:
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
