03-22-2004, 05:41 PM
Robert,<br>
There is no doubt some kind of battle/skirmish took place at Kalkriese but where do you get this "at the cost of thousands of Roman lives" bit? If you've walked the terrain, or even only looked at the relatively accurate reconstruction in the Nat. Geo article, you would know that the only way "thousands" of casualties could have been inflicted on the Romans is if their column was atacked all along its length, NOT by only a so-called "ambush" at the very head of the column. In the best case scenario, ignoring the fact that the Romans had scouts and a vanguard, the legionaries probably marched four abreast on a forest track, and simple arithmatic would show that less than a thousand Romans (probably closer to half that), could have even "fit" in the area where the artifacts where found. The archaeologists who developed this ridiculous scenario have absolutely no concept of ancient warfare, but despertately tried to concoct something that suggested the Varus battle, to assure future funding, and now, a multi-million Euro museum. They seem to imagine thousands of men in their long thin column (as it could only be), obligingly marching into a meat grinder to be killed four at a time as each file entered the "ambush site". This has to be about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.<br>
<br>
There was indeed some kind of settlement/structures at the center of the finds, where all the nails, post holes, pottery, furniture bits, etc. were found. Obviously, this is all being downplayed as it dismisses the nonsensical "ambush" theory.<br>
<br>
History indeed has a way of repeating itself, and in this case, you probably have seen the movie. Kalkriese, like Rourke's Drift was a strategic point to have an small installation, and behind the main thrusts in both campaigns. (1879 and 15-16 AD). In both cases, the lightly held stations were attacked by a larger number of the native population.<br>
<br>
In both cases, there was enough of a warning that the stations had time to be reinforced, though in the Roman case, this meant building an earthen rampart on more defensible higher ground.<br>
<br>
The Roman army was still more effective in offense rather than defense, and this is why there is a paucity of artifacts around the earthwork defenses. This was only to be used as a last resort, which apparently wasn't required.<br>
<br>
The scattered coins and bits of broken equipment suggest hard fighting, though it is most probable that the Romans ultimately triumphed and repulsed the barbarians, as they buried their pack mule, something the Germans certainly would not have. Also, if they were extremely hard pressed, they would have retreated back to the earthwork for their "last stand", much like the mealie bag redoubt at Rourke's Drift.<br>
<br>
I just had a wonderful, very original idea. Lets try to make a motion picture about what really must have happened at Kalkriese based on the actual archaeological evidence and not German wishful thinking and hero worship. We can form a website to write a screenplay about the courageous, outnumbered band of intrepid Roman defenders of classical civilization that garrissioned the Kalkriese station and held the vast mob of naked, club wielding barbarians at bay. I can see the title now, big pseudo-runic letters spelling out<br>
C H E R U S C I<br>
<br>
(and few years later we'll make CHERUSCI DAWN)<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
There is no doubt some kind of battle/skirmish took place at Kalkriese but where do you get this "at the cost of thousands of Roman lives" bit? If you've walked the terrain, or even only looked at the relatively accurate reconstruction in the Nat. Geo article, you would know that the only way "thousands" of casualties could have been inflicted on the Romans is if their column was atacked all along its length, NOT by only a so-called "ambush" at the very head of the column. In the best case scenario, ignoring the fact that the Romans had scouts and a vanguard, the legionaries probably marched four abreast on a forest track, and simple arithmatic would show that less than a thousand Romans (probably closer to half that), could have even "fit" in the area where the artifacts where found. The archaeologists who developed this ridiculous scenario have absolutely no concept of ancient warfare, but despertately tried to concoct something that suggested the Varus battle, to assure future funding, and now, a multi-million Euro museum. They seem to imagine thousands of men in their long thin column (as it could only be), obligingly marching into a meat grinder to be killed four at a time as each file entered the "ambush site". This has to be about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.<br>
<br>
There was indeed some kind of settlement/structures at the center of the finds, where all the nails, post holes, pottery, furniture bits, etc. were found. Obviously, this is all being downplayed as it dismisses the nonsensical "ambush" theory.<br>
<br>
History indeed has a way of repeating itself, and in this case, you probably have seen the movie. Kalkriese, like Rourke's Drift was a strategic point to have an small installation, and behind the main thrusts in both campaigns. (1879 and 15-16 AD). In both cases, the lightly held stations were attacked by a larger number of the native population.<br>
<br>
In both cases, there was enough of a warning that the stations had time to be reinforced, though in the Roman case, this meant building an earthen rampart on more defensible higher ground.<br>
<br>
The Roman army was still more effective in offense rather than defense, and this is why there is a paucity of artifacts around the earthwork defenses. This was only to be used as a last resort, which apparently wasn't required.<br>
<br>
The scattered coins and bits of broken equipment suggest hard fighting, though it is most probable that the Romans ultimately triumphed and repulsed the barbarians, as they buried their pack mule, something the Germans certainly would not have. Also, if they were extremely hard pressed, they would have retreated back to the earthwork for their "last stand", much like the mealie bag redoubt at Rourke's Drift.<br>
<br>
I just had a wonderful, very original idea. Lets try to make a motion picture about what really must have happened at Kalkriese based on the actual archaeological evidence and not German wishful thinking and hero worship. We can form a website to write a screenplay about the courageous, outnumbered band of intrepid Roman defenders of classical civilization that garrissioned the Kalkriese station and held the vast mob of naked, club wielding barbarians at bay. I can see the title now, big pseudo-runic letters spelling out<br>
C H E R U S C I<br>
<br>
(and few years later we'll make CHERUSCI DAWN)<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
