The Votadini exodus to Wales

[Robert Vermaat]

I've still never seen the solid evidence to say that Pagenses/Powys and Cornovia were one and the same area at this time. If you know of any I'd love to hear about them.

Well, not exactly of course. And it takes some time betweeen the last mentioning of the Cornovi civitas before we hear of Powys - but roughly the places attached to early Powys are also thought to have belonged to the Cornovian civitas.

I only think there may have been something in place because Honronius told the cities to look to their own defenses after 410, though there's still the argument that he was referring to an Italian city. If Britannia, or a large part, was still in its regional and provincial state then they would have to look to their borders too. There obviously wasn't enough in some places as Vortigern wouldn't have had to bring in Germans and bring down Cunedag.

Indeed , we are not even sure if Honorius actually wrote to the Britons and not to the Bruttians in Italy instead. It's in a vague part of Zosimus, hemmed in between tales of the war in southern Italy, so at best it's out of place. Persobnally I go for Bruttium, not Britannia.

The best thing 'in place' that I can think of is the example of Synesius in North Africa - a local wealthy man who organised the local defence when no military help was present. britain however seems to have had oplenty of soldiers, even though Gildas could not believe that - they must have been withdrawn all to explain the disaster! :twisted: Morris (I think) explained the move as a strategic plan - Cunedda was a thorn in the side of the Northern Britons, why not give him a free hand in Gwynedd against the Irish? Standard Roman federate policy, and why not?

It's of course possible that the 'Votadini Exodus' never really took place, but was invented by later kings to explain their right to rule. It's even been proposed that it was the dynasty of Mervyn Vrych (which came after the dynasty of Cunedda) invented this story to explain why they, a foreign dynasty, had equal rights to rule because those before them (Cunedda) had also come from foreign lands. Not a weird tale, such things were common enough in the early Middle Ages. Actual proof of a Votadinian move to Wales is still lacking.

I've heard others argue for the forming of warbands in the 4th century going along with the re-using of the hillforts. If it did happen I would have thought it was in the far flung places such as central Powys and Dumnonia. As long as they kept away from Roman activity and places and kept themselves to themselves, they may have got away with it. But you're right, it would be unique.

Hillforts we beginning to be re-used, but I'm not so sure that this was only a military development. Elite settlement (rich guy with a view) and civilian protection may also be the reason.