10-28-2008, 05:41 PM
Well--I admire those guys, but I'm not positive there's any one way. Shield directly facing the opponent--yep, if I had a flat shield like that, I'd quickly be forced to do that. But I recommend you get inside an aspis and see what happens--it doesn't lend itself to a straight push. Still, it is early days and I will stop claiming to "know" anything! Please do not take this to mean I'm disagreeing--I just work hard to avoid getting into that "flat" stance.
I think I'll quote you one that! Excellent simile.
Demetrios, it sounds like your experiences are "bigger" than mine. So far, in about 40 hours of trying to recreate Greek combat, I've mostly done 4 on 4 or 3 on three. One afternoon, NOT with my group, I dragooned an entire history class of 17 year-olds (including a front rank of athletes) and made a 24 man block to maneuver and practice with--but only the front rank had aspides and protective gear.
Your two questions are excellent--because this is just what we're all trying just now. So first, the simple answers.
1) I don't often fence with my spear, but I do do it. Let me say (aside) that I'm a swordsman of 35 years experience, so I have a natural but possibly "un-Greek" desire to use my spear as a ten foot sword. As I develop a standard repertoire of attacks and feints, I have found that, just as in fencing and SCA style-fighting and every other martial art, there are times when I want to put my weapon in contact with my opponent's weapon--if only to mislead.
2) We go shield to shield all the time, and my brand-new aspis has 6 coats of gesso over 2 layers of linen and glue with another 15 coats of paint atop the gesso--and I STILL have to repaint it after every fight. But that only takes five minutes--it still beats cleaning black powder guns (my other reenacting hobby). Have to say that the only injury I've received so far was the massive bruise to my jaw from taking some impact on the shield rim (That was a 270 pound hoplite crashing into me.) Shield to shield is quite exciting. However! I rather agree with Paul--I suspect the formations slowed and stopped at fighting range. Sometimes not. (I don't believe that there is any one unified field theory to what happened in a Hoplite fight).
Thanks, Sean. As we do more of this, we wear more protection. At the moment, we require heavy gloves (we're just transitioning to the WMA gloves from Purpleheart Armoury) with fencing masks, cups for all (men and women). However, at the moment we are using very light weapons--bamboo stave spears and Nitoryu Shinai as our xiphos and Kopis. This is a little unfair--after all, our aspides are full weight--but I'll always err on the side of defense and safety.
As a general aside, late archaic Greek kit--closed face helm, aspis, and greaves, with a linen, leather, or bronze thorax--is one of the few periods I can think of where the warrior is fully and sufficiently protected IN HIS REENACTMENT GEAR against period weapons. Since no one has the equivalent of a 2-handed sword or axe, a great many problems of the later periods are avoided. As our group gets more kit, we'll fight in Corinthians, or in our Boeotians with a wire-mesh mask in place underneath.
If I had the computer skills to do it, I'd move this to its own thread and stop polluting Paul's rather excellent question with all this spear-fighting recreation. Sorry, Paul!
Quote: think of it as a gun in a turret -vs- a gun in a sponson.
I think I'll quote you one that! Excellent simile.
Demetrios, it sounds like your experiences are "bigger" than mine. So far, in about 40 hours of trying to recreate Greek combat, I've mostly done 4 on 4 or 3 on three. One afternoon, NOT with my group, I dragooned an entire history class of 17 year-olds (including a front rank of athletes) and made a 24 man block to maneuver and practice with--but only the front rank had aspides and protective gear.
Your two questions are excellent--because this is just what we're all trying just now. So first, the simple answers.
1) I don't often fence with my spear, but I do do it. Let me say (aside) that I'm a swordsman of 35 years experience, so I have a natural but possibly "un-Greek" desire to use my spear as a ten foot sword. As I develop a standard repertoire of attacks and feints, I have found that, just as in fencing and SCA style-fighting and every other martial art, there are times when I want to put my weapon in contact with my opponent's weapon--if only to mislead.
2) We go shield to shield all the time, and my brand-new aspis has 6 coats of gesso over 2 layers of linen and glue with another 15 coats of paint atop the gesso--and I STILL have to repaint it after every fight. But that only takes five minutes--it still beats cleaning black powder guns (my other reenacting hobby). Have to say that the only injury I've received so far was the massive bruise to my jaw from taking some impact on the shield rim (That was a 270 pound hoplite crashing into me.) Shield to shield is quite exciting. However! I rather agree with Paul--I suspect the formations slowed and stopped at fighting range. Sometimes not. (I don't believe that there is any one unified field theory to what happened in a Hoplite fight).
Thanks, Sean. As we do more of this, we wear more protection. At the moment, we require heavy gloves (we're just transitioning to the WMA gloves from Purpleheart Armoury) with fencing masks, cups for all (men and women). However, at the moment we are using very light weapons--bamboo stave spears and Nitoryu Shinai as our xiphos and Kopis. This is a little unfair--after all, our aspides are full weight--but I'll always err on the side of defense and safety.
As a general aside, late archaic Greek kit--closed face helm, aspis, and greaves, with a linen, leather, or bronze thorax--is one of the few periods I can think of where the warrior is fully and sufficiently protected IN HIS REENACTMENT GEAR against period weapons. Since no one has the equivalent of a 2-handed sword or axe, a great many problems of the later periods are avoided. As our group gets more kit, we'll fight in Corinthians, or in our Boeotians with a wire-mesh mask in place underneath.
If I had the computer skills to do it, I'd move this to its own thread and stop polluting Paul's rather excellent question with all this spear-fighting recreation. Sorry, Paul!
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
