Iphicratean Thureophoroi

[PMBardunias]

...here we must disagree. AFIK, the sort of 'crowd forces' that you envisage only occur when the 'irresistable force'( in the form of hundreds/thousands of people moving in a given direction) meets the 'immovable object' in the form of walls or barriers at pop concerts, or barriers/crowd control fences at soccer games and the like.....being in the ranks, which, being of movable/moving people is not a confined space to me.

Not so at all. In models of this crowd phenomenon, as little as 4 people packed behind you are enough to render you imobilized and at maximun crowd density. Part of this misunderstanding is that even in giant crowd conditions, it need not be the whole crowd pushing at once in one direction to cause these pressures. In fact it is subsections of the crowd that become accidentally coordinated that cause the damage. We are here talking about 16 ranks of men who are all trying to push against each other.

I can't recall any 'crowd force' incidents that have occurred in unconfined spaces/open areas that generate the sort of forces that you postulate and that would 'crush' shields.

As I said the question is somewhat resolved because we know that these pressure do come into play in real-life recreations of mass combat with as little as 6 ranks. The arguement over whether these forces in a phalanx can kill has been resolved. Do you deny the account of those who have succombed to this in reenactment?

Certainly crowd pressure is a known ancient battlefield phenomenon - we hear for example, of troops compressed ( even Roman ones) so much that the dead can't fall, or of being so crowded that they can't use their weapons etc, but again, none of these situations come about deliberately, as your hypothesis postulates....and it is usually the result of panic.

Right, so how deadly the phalanx that learned to use this force intentionally against a foe who cannot? This is a great example of a tactical innovation.

I was thinking more of that domed shield being pressed into the back of the man in front, assuming your hypothesis for a moment; that the phalanx really can generate these sort of forces, and that the enemy phalanx proves to be the 'immovable object' ( all unlikely in my view)

If two men of equal strength and weight push against each other, they are immovable objects to one another. Why would 8 ranks of men on each side be any different?

In my mind's eye for this 'thought experiment', the aspis dome is strong enough to prevent asphyxiation by crushing from the front , the hollow allowing breathing....(in which case, by definition it should not suffer structural failure??), but tremendous, and equal force is being exerted into the Hoplite's back by the convex dome of the man behind, compressed in turn by the ranks deep ( and the depth they stood in is another matter of debate - a thin line 8-12 deep on average at best, or 4-6 if my thoughts on depths are correct) - is simply not going to generate the 'crowd forces' of the massively 'deep' crowds at a sporting event or rock concert)

See above, you are overestimating how much of the crowd is involved in the actual crushing. The large crowds simply set the stage for sub-units of crowd to crush each other unintentionally.

The Hoplite has no domed shield to protect his back ! He is surely in danger of being crushed/asphyxiated in such a situation, because to breathe, a person's ribcage must be free to expand in all directions equally, not just to the front.....

This is very important to get clear. You do not need protection from the back. Your spine is better protection that any shield could be. You do not expand in all directions when you breathe- this is why it is easier to breathe when laying on your back than on your belly. In addition the broad, flattened face of the aspis spreads the force broadly across your back. In the front all of the force rests on two points of contact with the shield. I have experimented extensively with this and the aspis concept is about as good as you can get for protecting the diaphragm.