11-20-2008, 07:10 PM
Giannis--exhaustion and casualties are actually related--just because they were Spartans doesn't mean they were without fear.
Thuc. 4.33/1 "Meanwhile the main body of troops (that under Epitadas) seeing their outpost cut off and an army advancing to against them, serried their ranks and pressed forward to close with the Athenian Hoplites, the light troops being on their flanks and rear."
If you would look at this again, Giannis, i think you'll see that my contention has a little more value than you give credit. Like any HOPLITE, Epitadas went forward to fight the enemy HOPLITES, and virtually ignored the peltasts. I think that this is as important a point as any other. This is a period where the use of Peltasts and psiloi and archers as serious battlefield troops is in its infancy (at least in Greece). Epitadas went forward witht he assumption--often an accurate one--that if he could get his hoplites into combat with the AThenian hoplites, he could still win.
4.34 shows how this combat worked. the Spartans aren't "fighting" the peltasts, but are simply launching their younger men to pursue them while keeping the phalanx intact and possibly even on the move--but as in later conflicts, their sprinters get tired (4.34 later first sentence) and the Psiloi grow more confident.
The confidence of the Psiloi, in turn, allows them to come forward more boldly and in greater numbers, so that they throw more missiles...
But the question I asked above, and sought to answer, was "why did the Spartans stop moving int he first place?" Long before they retreated, they stopped their advance to attempt to contact the Athenian Hoplites.
Hey--I may not convince you, but I just wanted to re-state my argument.
Thuc. 4.33/1 "Meanwhile the main body of troops (that under Epitadas) seeing their outpost cut off and an army advancing to against them, serried their ranks and pressed forward to close with the Athenian Hoplites, the light troops being on their flanks and rear."
If you would look at this again, Giannis, i think you'll see that my contention has a little more value than you give credit. Like any HOPLITE, Epitadas went forward to fight the enemy HOPLITES, and virtually ignored the peltasts. I think that this is as important a point as any other. This is a period where the use of Peltasts and psiloi and archers as serious battlefield troops is in its infancy (at least in Greece). Epitadas went forward witht he assumption--often an accurate one--that if he could get his hoplites into combat with the AThenian hoplites, he could still win.
4.34 shows how this combat worked. the Spartans aren't "fighting" the peltasts, but are simply launching their younger men to pursue them while keeping the phalanx intact and possibly even on the move--but as in later conflicts, their sprinters get tired (4.34 later first sentence) and the Psiloi grow more confident.
The confidence of the Psiloi, in turn, allows them to come forward more boldly and in greater numbers, so that they throw more missiles...
But the question I asked above, and sought to answer, was "why did the Spartans stop moving int he first place?" Long before they retreated, they stopped their advance to attempt to contact the Athenian Hoplites.
Hey--I may not convince you, but I just wanted to re-state my argument.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
