02-21-2009, 03:22 PM
An exellent 15th century Italian source (Mancini) describes the cloth armour of English archers that is said to be able to stop an arrow or turn a blade. Its 25 layers of linen quilted together and stuffed with tow. Rene de Anjou (also 15th century) says padded coats need to be three fingers thick to be adequate protection... under armour.
I made a sample and did cut tests against it a number of years ago, and you really need 25 layers and stuffing in order to stop a cut or thrust, and the stuffing is really neccesary to prevent a cut or thrust.
And it looks nothing like the depictions in statuary or vases. In particular the statuary, like the sample Christian posted shows no evidence whatsoever of quilting, and quilting is distinctive, stuffed or unstuffed. Linen glued together has also been posited, and with modern adhesives may simulate the look, but historically available adhesives have a number of failings that render them pretty poor for use in armour: The dissolved in water or heat, and they are extremely brittle. Body heat and sweat dissolve them all.
All that said, I don't entirely disbelieve in linen usage in armour... If you've got something to actually protect you. So linen backing scale armour might be in the realm of possibility, but I have a hard time believing in linen as armour in its own right in the period, particularly given the abscence of sources that support the hypothesis.
On the flip side, latigo is an extremely tough leather that resists cutting and piercing. A "friend" of mine managed to snap of the tip of an extremely good knife off in a piece of latigo while trying to pierce a hole in it, and it takes a few passes with a fresh blade of a craft knife to cut through it.
So, I'm fully in support of the leather hypothesis.
Have fun!
Cole Cioran
aka Nikolaos of the Corvaxi
I made a sample and did cut tests against it a number of years ago, and you really need 25 layers and stuffing in order to stop a cut or thrust, and the stuffing is really neccesary to prevent a cut or thrust.
And it looks nothing like the depictions in statuary or vases. In particular the statuary, like the sample Christian posted shows no evidence whatsoever of quilting, and quilting is distinctive, stuffed or unstuffed. Linen glued together has also been posited, and with modern adhesives may simulate the look, but historically available adhesives have a number of failings that render them pretty poor for use in armour: The dissolved in water or heat, and they are extremely brittle. Body heat and sweat dissolve them all.
All that said, I don't entirely disbelieve in linen usage in armour... If you've got something to actually protect you. So linen backing scale armour might be in the realm of possibility, but I have a hard time believing in linen as armour in its own right in the period, particularly given the abscence of sources that support the hypothesis.
On the flip side, latigo is an extremely tough leather that resists cutting and piercing. A "friend" of mine managed to snap of the tip of an extremely good knife off in a piece of latigo while trying to pierce a hole in it, and it takes a few passes with a fresh blade of a craft knife to cut through it.
So, I'm fully in support of the leather hypothesis.
Have fun!
Cole Cioran
aka Nikolaos of the Corvaxi
Cole
