11-13-2009, 12:20 PM
Quote:Hello, Diegis
Sorry, but I disagree that the Dacian language formed a significant part in the Gothic culture in the period when they crossed the Danube. The Goths, as you and Rumo say, were probably muli-lingual. I certainly can see how and why they would be. If anything, the second language would have been Sarmatian-Alanic, judging from the documented homogeny of the Gothic contingents at this time, aka 350 to 400. But the commands-- shouted in battle-- were no doubt in Gothic. That's my point. When you yell "Charge!", everyone has to know it means "Charge!" And so, as with any other military configuration, the Goths charged when they were given a singular, understandable, command. And I'm reasonably sure it wasn't Dacian. :roll:
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Salve Alanus
What i want to say is that we dont how to know what language/languages was used by goths, not even in military, during their diferent stages. The resons i mentioned the dacian language as a kind of lingua franca was:
Roman poet Ovidius, who was exiled in new formed province called Scythia Minor (later integrated in Moesia), mention several things, and sai there was many barbarians even in Tomis (a legend relate the name of this city with queen Tomyris, if i am not mistake even Jordanes is the one who mentioned), this being Getae(Dacians) and Sarmatians, and he learn the Getae language, but not quite well, since Getae/Dacians laugh when hear him. As well, in a letter for a friend he said that he even writed some poetry in dacian language (unfortunately wasnt discovered), and that his friend to not be surprised if will found "barbarian" words in his poems, since one of them are almost like the writings of a Getae poet. What i want to point out is that getae-dacian language was already the "lingua franca" in the area, sarmatians from around Dacia knew it, greeks from greek towns at Black Sea knew it, and even Ovidius, if he wanted to understand well with the peoples there, learn it. As well, during the wars betwen Decebal and Traian, the same sarmatians (and bastarnae) was allies of dacians, and provided them auxiliars troops. I am pretty sure that many of those foreigns around Dacia knew dacian language at some level, dacians being the most developed nation (if we can say like that), either military, culturaly and social (they was the only ones who had a even empire in Burebista times, and a centalized kingdom in Decbal time) among them.
The comparation betwen roman army, and goths army is, in my opinion, very unrealistic. Roman army, begining even with Scipio Africanus if you wish, and especialy with Caius Marius, had a well established organization, chain of comand, standardized training and equipment. As well, romans was always the dominant, both military and culturaly and the foreign auxiliars who joined the roman army did that to receive citizenship too, they wanted to become romans, they consider that is a step forward for them, even if in many times they come from conquered nations. That roman army was a profesional one where soldiers served for 20-25 years, and even like that i dont think all auxiliars learned very well latin, or bothered to do that, except ofcourse the military comands. Ofcourse this comands and military related terms was preserved even later, in eastern roman empire, as a recognition of the prestige of roman army, who was the best in the world.
But about the goths, the best comparation is like Rumo and Paullus said, not with the roman army. Goths was a conglomerat of peoples with diverse ethnicity, joined togheter probably by comon interests. First time they even didnt invade alone the roman borders, but with one of the free dacian tribes, Carpii, who lead the invasion. They didnt had a profesional and organized army as roman one, but a mix of several diferent troops from several diferent peoples, so most probable was bilingual, if not polylingual. Maybe later, when they becomed "foederati", and allies of romans, even took some roman military comands, who know.
Razvan A.
