08-11-2009, 01:14 AM
I heartily concur with Paul B. here, and share his views on this subject.Van Wees and others of his ilk are arguing on very weak ground in suggesting that the Hoplite phalanx as a unique tactic only came about after the Persian wars. These rather weak arguments have been thoroughly debunked by Wheeler and others. I also concur with the view that Hoplite warfare came about by evolution rather than 'revolution', and I don't believe many scholars hold the latter view these days.
The weakness of the Van Wees viewpoint is readily appreciated when one bears in mind that the 'Father of History', Herodotus, is our first Greek Historian, and he is writing a generation after the Persian Wars ! He is our earliest source, so of course there is no literary evidence for the Phalanx prior to this! (DOH! ). One can logically conclude NOTHING from the lack of evidence of the use of the word 'Hoplite' prior to this as a result. It is only true to say that because there is no surviving literature prior to Herodotus, we don't know whether the word was in general use or not. Nor does the lack of it's appearance in the surviving extremely scanty epigraphy tell us anything at all either - it is not a word one would expect to see in epigraphical pronouncements, and not enough survives to draw any conclusions from anyway !
Before Herodotus there are only scraps of poetry, which tend to follow the 'Homeric' style, (e.g. Tyrtaeus) thus making it difficult to determine whether thay refer to 'Hoplite Phalanx Warfare' or not. This is the more so when it is realised that 'psiloi' skirmished while the Hoplites stood in open/normal order, and they could and almost certainly did skirmish from within the ranks on occasion, and then withdrew to the rear while the Hoplites closed up for the 'charge'/hand-to-hand fighting. As to 'psiloi' not existing, or not existing 'separately' before classical times, I think it is safe to assume that servants always assisted their masters by picking up rocks and hurling them, and then getting out of the way when the 'hand-to-hand' stuff started etc, since the dawn of time !
It is not generally realised that slaves/servants frequently participated in battles with their Roman legionary masters. Just because they are rarely mentioned does not mean they weren' there!
Van Wees and those who follow him are largely arguing from an 'absence of evidence' point of view, always a dangerous proposition. :x
The weakness of the Van Wees viewpoint is readily appreciated when one bears in mind that the 'Father of History', Herodotus, is our first Greek Historian, and he is writing a generation after the Persian Wars ! He is our earliest source, so of course there is no literary evidence for the Phalanx prior to this! (DOH! ). One can logically conclude NOTHING from the lack of evidence of the use of the word 'Hoplite' prior to this as a result. It is only true to say that because there is no surviving literature prior to Herodotus, we don't know whether the word was in general use or not. Nor does the lack of it's appearance in the surviving extremely scanty epigraphy tell us anything at all either - it is not a word one would expect to see in epigraphical pronouncements, and not enough survives to draw any conclusions from anyway !
Before Herodotus there are only scraps of poetry, which tend to follow the 'Homeric' style, (e.g. Tyrtaeus) thus making it difficult to determine whether thay refer to 'Hoplite Phalanx Warfare' or not. This is the more so when it is realised that 'psiloi' skirmished while the Hoplites stood in open/normal order, and they could and almost certainly did skirmish from within the ranks on occasion, and then withdrew to the rear while the Hoplites closed up for the 'charge'/hand-to-hand fighting. As to 'psiloi' not existing, or not existing 'separately' before classical times, I think it is safe to assume that servants always assisted their masters by picking up rocks and hurling them, and then getting out of the way when the 'hand-to-hand' stuff started etc, since the dawn of time !
It is not generally realised that slaves/servants frequently participated in battles with their Roman legionary masters. Just because they are rarely mentioned does not mean they weren' there!
Van Wees and those who follow him are largely arguing from an 'absence of evidence' point of view, always a dangerous proposition. :x
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
