Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Cataphract, Clibanarii, whatever, against Infantry
#85
Quote:
Quote:Only in the sixteen hundreds are cavalry mentioned attacking a trot and this was against the other guy's cavalry. Attacking at a walk destroys any shock capability.

You are assuming that the "shock" capability is important in attacking infantry. I worry that much of our view of "shock" comes from a joust mentality. A horse hitting a man at anything faster than a walk might be overkill, since a horse walking into you will knock you over or impart sufficient impetus to the weapon of its rider. In at least one reliable breaking of formed men who give no indication of breaking ranks prior to contact, the French lances at Dresden simply walked up an stabbed.

IIRC that was Eylau.

A walk would hardly generate the force needed.


Quote:At battles such as Omdurman the 21st is mentioned being slowed to walk only after they hacked their way through the mahadist square. Which shows that the 21st hit the enemy at a gallop as well as Churchhills account of the massive amount of shock. (At least two hundred Mahadists were knocked flying and forty lancers were unhorsed)

Quote:Perhaps the exception that proves the rule if these horses tripped over the fallen, but even these men cannot have been packed very tight, since the majority will not have been "flying", but ridden down and over.

Churchill's account clearly states that the Mahadists were solid and someone hit by a running horse will be knocked flying.


Quote:As for a running horse hitting a phalanx, well the horses wouldn't have to worry about breaking a leg on a corpse (which seems highly unlikely anyway) because someone who gets hit by a 1,500 pound horse that's running at 35 miles an hour won't fall down, they'll go flying. . . and since the only place the victim can go is among his buddies that would also help destroy the integrity of the formation.

Quote:Probably the height of the center of mass of a man, even assuming his simply stands straight up and gets hit, is low enough compared to the chest of a horse that his most likely vector is angled downwards, not up in the air as in a car crash.

Something else that seems to go unappreciated is that if an 800 lb horse (960 lb with rider) hit a relatively tightly massed phalanx of say 8 ranks of 160 lb men, then is is the horse that would go flying when it hit the 1280 lb mass! Of course the weight does not add up as neatly as that due to some space between ranks, but if the men pack tight, it is suicidal for a rider to hit them at speed.

A horse can weigh a lot more than 800 pounds 1,500 pounds is an average weight for a 14-16 hand horse. And since one 1,500 pound mount would outweigh the combined weight of the phalanx. And since there would more than one horse and they would be charging at 35 miles an hour. . .

And even if the man went down he would still be knocked back a good fifteen feet and into the legs of his comrades.


Quote:So why charge? There is a great psychological advantage in charging down on infantry, undoubtably they often loosened their ranks just prior to contact and "flinched". But, if they instead nestled in close to the men in front, I doubt a horse could get through except by fighting their way in. So charges surely were performed at a gallop, but they likely slowed prior to contact if the men stood firm. This reduces the often stated "horses won't charge through a mass of men at the gallop," to "horses can't charge through a mass of men at the gallop."

Why charge? Well you have something that weighs three quarters of a ton and is moving over 30 miles an hour and you have a few hundred of them. That would do a lot of damage to the enemy.

Slowing down is suicide, every military manual I've read on cavalry tactics states that they should go to a gallop at fifty yards, and don't stop for anything, keep going otherwise there's no way you can break the enemy, once cavalry slow down the advantage goes to the infantry. And the rider can't do much, he's flailing around from the back of his mount the horses weight and speed does the most damage.

So yes horses change be trained to charge home against what they think is a solid object (although there's a great deal of debate on whether or not a horse could even see spears) and they can charge at a gallop. Of course charging into the front of the spear points is not a good idea and your surperior speed and maneuverability makes it doubly unnessesary anyway.

If I was a cavalryman I would take the enemy infantry in the flank or the rear and I would only charge the front if: (A. They had been pounded by friendly missle troops. (B. I had no other choice (Like the 21st at Omdurman) And I would only attack the infantry after I had swept the other guys cavalry off the field.

Another point if I may, charging at a trot in armour would be a living hell. And you can forget about posting.
Ben.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Re: Cataphract, Clibanarii, whatever, against Infantry - by Aulus Perrinius - 12-11-2009, 08:45 PM

Forum Jump: