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Macedonian Soldier Stele
#41
Ruben wrote:
Quote:Palaeography actually is a pretty good way to date stelae (or at least, to corroborate their dates with other evidence). There definitely does seem to be a line at the wrist, so I would readily accept that Nikanor wears a long-sleeved tunic.
....since a 'style' of letter-incising would spread slowly from it's place of origin over a long time, I don't believe it alone can be used to date a stele, but only to within 50 years or so......as you say, it needs further corroborative evidence.
As to lines across wrists, these appear on many sculptures/ friezes, because wrists are thin and easily crack, not to mention that sculpture is often 'vandalised' by having protruding bits - hands, faces, heads - hacked off and these items subsequently being 'restored'. Like Giannis, I am inclined to believe it is more likely a short sleeve - see also the similar stele I posted.

Quote:Yes, such helmets from rich tombs like those from the tomb at Vergina and Marvinci had high crests, but they are unique examples - we find other examples of the type of helmet seen on this stele in 4th c. BC art. One example is painted in the background of the battle scene on the Alexander sarcophagus, for instance. This stele could easily date to c. 300 BC.
...actually, a number of 'Attic' type helmets appear on the sarcophagus. I don't think they are of the 'Antigonid' type I referred to - the bowl shape is different and the Antigonid type, judging by the surviving examples ( which don't seem to have any provision for crests) and the "Lyson and Kallikles' tomb painting ( crestless). Which is not important, given the limitations of the medium. The 'Alexander Sarcophagus' was made either for Abdalonymus, who died in 311 BC, or perhaps later for Mazaeus or someone else. Given the date and the 'Attic style ' helmet, what you suggest is probably equally possible, though the carved helmet in question is crestless like the Antigonid style, rather than the crested examples on the sarcophagus....

Quote:Both aspides and spined round shields were carried by Antigonid cavalrymen, and Hellenistic cavalrymen in general.Both aspides and spined round shields were carried by Antigonid cavalrymen, and Hellenistic cavalrymen in general.

....I'm not at all sure you are correct in this. Depictions, of course, are few. There are some reliefs of Greek cavalry carrying 'aspides' from Thespiae in Boeotia ( referred to in Duncan Head's AMPW), and Tarantines of course, but AFIK all known depictions of shielded Makedonian/Antigonid cavalry show the Celtic spined variety. Have you come across specific examples of Makedonian cavalry with 'aspides'.

Quote:I think the suggested dating fits just fine, but it could date to the early years of the 3rd c. BC as well. The lack of shield and long sleeves would fit perfectly within this timeframe.
...I'd agree.... Smile D
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Messages In This Thread
Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 03:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Archelaos - 10-17-2009, 04:28 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 04:32 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 05:45 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 06:15 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 07:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 08:13 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 09:00 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 09:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 10:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 11:30 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 10-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by PMBardunias - 10-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Fco Matias Bueno - 12-13-2009, 01:39 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 04:42 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-13-2009, 07:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 12:04 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-14-2009, 12:11 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 01:46 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-14-2009, 02:43 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-14-2009, 04:05 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 05:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Ghostmojo - 12-14-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 10:05 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-14-2009, 11:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Ghostmojo - 12-14-2009, 11:33 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 11:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 02:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 03:08 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 03:43 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 03:54 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 04:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 05:56 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 06:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 06:38 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 06:45 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 06:53 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 06:16 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-16-2009, 06:36 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 06:54 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 04:00 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-16-2009, 11:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 12:37 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 01:19 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 02:15 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 03:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 05:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 06:33 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 09:05 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 06:41 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-18-2009, 01:24 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 02:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-18-2009, 05:34 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 07:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 07:01 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-18-2009, 10:57 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-19-2009, 08:01 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-19-2009, 08:46 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-21-2009, 02:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 04:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 09:55 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by D B Campbell - 12-21-2009, 01:34 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by PMBardunias - 12-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 10:35 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 12:42 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-22-2009, 01:23 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 01:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 02:32 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 07:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 08:11 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 09:59 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 10:15 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-23-2009, 10:33 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-24-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 07:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 04:52 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-29-2009, 08:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2009, 08:52 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-31-2009, 07:31 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 01-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by keravnos - 01-23-2010, 07:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 01-23-2010, 10:03 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by keravnos - 01-23-2010, 11:54 AM

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