11-20-2009, 05:02 AM
So unless I have missed something, the evidence is quite meager. We have a reference from Thucydides that they fought around the king at Mantinea.
We have their presence near the king at Leuktra:
Here the word used is "?????" here not "??????" unless Perseus has it wrong. Note the word "Kai" in greek which means "and/also". Thus the above should read:
The king and these important men are wounded or die first, then in a second phrase the Hippeis and whatever the Polemarch's own are are pushed back by the Theban crowd. There are many around the King. Where were the first men listed standing? There is no indication that they were part of the Hippeis any more than part of the polemarch's own or the "others" as the english translation would make it seem. If anything you could make a case that his tent companions (and their children!) fought around him.
Of course there was. The 300 of the Sacred band had a function that had nothing to do with a king, as did the 1,000 picked men of the Argives. The Sacred Band or the Argive chosen could easily have been an honor guard as the Hippeis were for Themistocles, without pretensions to giving him a royal guard.
This is the problem. That assumption, based on next to nothing has then biased all translations having to do with the elite unit. For example it clouds the translation of Hippagretai:
Thus the Hippeis could simply be what the picked men of other poleis were: an elite unit. The best men they had, and in the Spartan context they would have had the added bonus of being an all spartiate unit, unmixed with perioic or hypomeionic elements. They might be expected to fight where the need for men the best men was percieved to be and often the king might fight there as well since it was a place of honor.
As far as I know the suggestion that Xanthippos was a Mothax was Lazenby's alone. I don't find it convincing beyond any of the other options. The phrase could work equally as well for a Hypomeiones, but I think it was merely to provide bona fides when writing at a time when no one was brought up "in the Spartan discipline" of a century past. A variety of other authors have him a full Spartiate and even officially sent by the Spartans to the Carthaginians- which is unlikely. I think Diodorus calls him a Lakedaimonian, leading some to think him Perioic. I have spent some time studying Xanthippos, send me an email and I'll send you some interesting information that I have dug up.
Quote:Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Book 5.72, at Mantinea, 418 B.C.,
"..But the Lacedaemonians, worsted in this part of the field, with the rest of their army, and especially the center, where the 300 knights*, as they are called, fought round King Agis, fell on the older men of the Argives ..."
We have their presence near the king at Leuktra:
Quote:14] But when Deinon, the polemarch, Sphodrias, one of the king's tent-companions, and Cleonymus,1 the son of Sphodrias, had been killed, then the royal bodyguard, the so-called aides of the polemarch, and the others fell back under the pressure of the Theban mass,
14] ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ? ?????????? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ??? ????????? ? ???? ?????, ??? ?? †??? ????? ??? ?? ????????? ??? ?????????? ?????????? ?? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????????? ?????????
Here the word used is "?????" here not "??????" unless Perseus has it wrong. Note the word "Kai" in greek which means "and/also". Thus the above should read:
Quote:But when Deinon the polemarch died, and/also Sphodrias, one of the king's tent-companions, and/also Cleonymus, the son of Sphodrias, had been killed, and/also then the royal bodyguard, and/also the so-called aides of the polemarch, and the others fell back under the pressure of the Theban mass.
The king and these important men are wounded or die first, then in a second phrase the Hippeis and whatever the Polemarch's own are are pushed back by the Theban crowd. There are many around the King. Where were the first men listed standing? There is no indication that they were part of the Hippeis any more than part of the polemarch's own or the "others" as the english translation would make it seem. If anything you could make a case that his tent companions (and their children!) fought around him.
Quote: But I basically agree with Howard that there was probably not a distinct function of an elite group who formed a Royal Guard which didn't primarily fight close to the king (again, there was perhaps a sub-group constituting the king's actual bodyguard per se).
Of course there was. The 300 of the Sacred band had a function that had nothing to do with a king, as did the 1,000 picked men of the Argives. The Sacred Band or the Argive chosen could easily have been an honor guard as the Hippeis were for Themistocles, without pretensions to giving him a royal guard.
Quote: The ancient Greek word for Xenophon's 'royal bodyguard' is ??????.
This is the problem. That assumption, based on next to nothing has then biased all translations having to do with the elite unit. For example it clouds the translation of Hippagretai:
Quote:Xenophon's Constitution of the Lacedaemonians, Book 4.3-6,
"...The Ephors, then, pick out three of the very best among them. These three are called Commanders of the Guard [hippagretai]."
Thus the Hippeis could simply be what the picked men of other poleis were: an elite unit. The best men they had, and in the Spartan context they would have had the added bonus of being an all spartiate unit, unmixed with perioic or hypomeionic elements. They might be expected to fight where the need for men the best men was percieved to be and often the king might fight there as well since it was a place of honor.
Quote:The great Spartan mercenary Captain-General whom many of you know of, Xanthippus, who wiped out the first Roman invasion army of Carthaginian Africa in 255 B.C., was probably a Mothax. Polybius states he 'had been brought up in the Spartan discipline, and had had a fair amount of military experience' (The Histories, Book 1.32.1), and Diodorus merely tells us he was a 'Spartan' (Bibliotheca Historica, Book 23.14.1).
As far as I know the suggestion that Xanthippos was a Mothax was Lazenby's alone. I don't find it convincing beyond any of the other options. The phrase could work equally as well for a Hypomeiones, but I think it was merely to provide bona fides when writing at a time when no one was brought up "in the Spartan discipline" of a century past. A variety of other authors have him a full Spartiate and even officially sent by the Spartans to the Carthaginians- which is unlikely. I think Diodorus calls him a Lakedaimonian, leading some to think him Perioic. I have spent some time studying Xanthippos, send me an email and I'll send you some interesting information that I have dug up.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
