Hippeis, not Hippies

[Polinik]

Tactics – or the ignoring of them – will get you beaten every time no matter the quality of troops involved. Put yourself in the wrong position with the wrong “battle plan” and you’re just as dead as the city state “amateurs”.

Of course.No one said it did not matter,alongside with bravery(although it is a whole specter of virtues but let's call them simply bravery) tactics win. But when you brake down the tactic,the disciplined phalanx and the war "know how technology" you get to the individual quality of each man that builds up the phalanx. Spartan polemarch would not have the same results if he was given the same number of people from some other state. So "tactic" is possible because of the quality of every single man involved.

The second part of your post until end we seem to speak the same thing...
"The “strong” do not deliberately seek opportunities to display their strength" It was my point exactly.So I'm not sure you understood me but we do agree there.

Again, I think we should not get into trap of putting for example Anaxandridas, Cleomenes's and Leonidas's Sparta with Pleistonax's and Pausanias's Sparta.Those are two different worlds. Leuktra,Mantinea etc say nothing to me about Spartans that most think of,because the ideal and Lycurgus dream was decades dead until then,even if it officially existed(debatable).


@Ghostmojo
I think there is not a single percent of plausibility for commander to organize and lead army out of the crumbling city. But it does not matter...It did not even have to be 20 000 dead to bring down the system. The earthquake probably made great damage in the city,villages...inflicted heavy loses in the army etc...but what is most important is that it certainly made irreplaceable damage to the system,the very core,the strongest part of their society.Just imagine what had to happen for slaves to fell they could rebel after centuries,and you get the idea of devastation Sparta suffered...Both mental and physical. And it officially marked the end of an era of perfect military society,end that probably begun soon after Persian wars generation of hoplites,ephors etc died.

Now I have to run.

Take care

All best