They were as good as any other....myth!

[Polinik]

Ah! The Olympic Games is a dubious argument.
Spartans dominated wrestling but not pankration or (...and thats very odd) not hoplitodromy.

Kind regards

Indeed it is,you are right, but consistency such as this can give a clue(a weak one though) what was at a price at the time. Also with almost 2/3 of unknown Olympic victors we can not know who truly dominated in almost any discipline.

PMBardunias\\n[quote]All most everything you listed are not "individual fighting skills", but "group fighting skills". Perhaps there is confusion, no one thinks that the Spartans could not fight, but only that the skills they stressed were those used in group fighting.........[quote]

Perhaps there was a confusion indeed...With these lines and the rest of what you said I agree.I think the underlined part is the conclusion of this whole discussion.

PMBardunias\\n[quote]It was the unfounded and truly misleading statement that they were whipped more often that they slept with their wives that was a problem- no man with a wife was getting whipped at all.[quote]

It was a figure of speech,they were all adolescents once - while others bothered with everyday problems Spartiates bothered with shield and spear(military problems). I used that to emphasize the mind set which took 20-30years to develop that could hardly let them accept the fact they are no better than a common man...But OK, it is a speculation on my part and let's forget it.

PMBardunias\\n[quote]...and perhaps less skilled than a man who trained extensively with a hoplomachus....[quote]

Certainly.And vice versa...But in addition Spartiates had to go trough some hoplomachia for sure,they were not idiots...while men from other cities did or did not.
Those who trained with hoplomachus extensively were more skilled than average Spartiate for sure,those who did not train enough didn't.
It's that easy. If you say virtually all other Greeks trained hard with hoplomachus than ok. But if not - than the "as any other" part seems like an overstatement.That is the whole point.

All best