07-12-2004, 10:49 PM
Hi All<br>
<br>
I think that the problem with many historical films is that they are so visually persuasive so that when we are told they are historical the audience thinks 'well it looks real so it must be true'. The number of audience members who can stand up and say 'excuse me the armour/costumes/script are wrong there' are relatively small and never brave enough to do it in the actual movie theatre. What is more the reaction to our indignation will never be 'thanks for that'; it will be to the tune of 'shut up you git' or worse.<br>
<br>
My major problem with Gladiator was not the costumes or napalm but the line 'Rome was founded as a Republic'. However, when I pointed this out to my wife (after the film I might add) she told me I spoilt the film. I therefore keep my comments to myself. (As an aside I was very proud when she turned to me during Troy and asked 'did you see the plane lights blinking?' That was in the first sunset/dawn seen from the walls from Troy). Anyway, I too can leave the historian behind when viewing historical films of the older ilk and thoroughly enjoy them - Just watched Sign of the Pagan with Jack Palance and the new Spartacus and thoroughly them both.<br>
<br>
But I agree that it is when we are told that these films are the most accurate and based on a true story that opens them to criticism on those grounds. I like the irony of Gettysburg in that the 'extras' had more accuracy and knowledge in their depiction and costumes than the producers or director (and certainly their hair was at least real) could ever hope to gain. But that film is really the exception when it comes to taking advantage of specialist knowledge (I could probably include Gods and Generals but it didn't create anything like the buzz of Gettysburg). When we hear of the experiences of experts in other films it is really just a caution to others not to get involved with ideas of changing the world. That said, I am sure we all have plans for as close to a 100% accurate film as possible (though none as advanced as the Varus Project ). We are also in a time of resurgent historical epic and so it is very exciting to think of the possibilities and, correspondingly dissapointing when we see those opportunities wasted. Hence the venting here and on other sites.<br>
<br>
Having said all this I am going to do my bit in the wider public. I start teaching an eight week course next week called 'Watching History Happen' where I look at films from biblical epic to modern and compare them with what we know. Should be fun.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Muzzaguchi <p>It is an unscrupulous intellect that does not pay Antiquity its due reverence - Erasmus of Rotterdam<br>
<br>
'Modern history, like a deaf man, answers questions no one asks' - Tolstoy War and Peace Ep. ii.1</p><i></i>
<br>
I think that the problem with many historical films is that they are so visually persuasive so that when we are told they are historical the audience thinks 'well it looks real so it must be true'. The number of audience members who can stand up and say 'excuse me the armour/costumes/script are wrong there' are relatively small and never brave enough to do it in the actual movie theatre. What is more the reaction to our indignation will never be 'thanks for that'; it will be to the tune of 'shut up you git' or worse.<br>
<br>
My major problem with Gladiator was not the costumes or napalm but the line 'Rome was founded as a Republic'. However, when I pointed this out to my wife (after the film I might add) she told me I spoilt the film. I therefore keep my comments to myself. (As an aside I was very proud when she turned to me during Troy and asked 'did you see the plane lights blinking?' That was in the first sunset/dawn seen from the walls from Troy). Anyway, I too can leave the historian behind when viewing historical films of the older ilk and thoroughly enjoy them - Just watched Sign of the Pagan with Jack Palance and the new Spartacus and thoroughly them both.<br>
<br>
But I agree that it is when we are told that these films are the most accurate and based on a true story that opens them to criticism on those grounds. I like the irony of Gettysburg in that the 'extras' had more accuracy and knowledge in their depiction and costumes than the producers or director (and certainly their hair was at least real) could ever hope to gain. But that film is really the exception when it comes to taking advantage of specialist knowledge (I could probably include Gods and Generals but it didn't create anything like the buzz of Gettysburg). When we hear of the experiences of experts in other films it is really just a caution to others not to get involved with ideas of changing the world. That said, I am sure we all have plans for as close to a 100% accurate film as possible (though none as advanced as the Varus Project ). We are also in a time of resurgent historical epic and so it is very exciting to think of the possibilities and, correspondingly dissapointing when we see those opportunities wasted. Hence the venting here and on other sites.<br>
<br>
Having said all this I am going to do my bit in the wider public. I start teaching an eight week course next week called 'Watching History Happen' where I look at films from biblical epic to modern and compare them with what we know. Should be fun.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Muzzaguchi <p>It is an unscrupulous intellect that does not pay Antiquity its due reverence - Erasmus of Rotterdam<br>
<br>
'Modern history, like a deaf man, answers questions no one asks' - Tolstoy War and Peace Ep. ii.1</p><i></i>
Murray K Dahm
Moderator
\'\'\'\'No matter how many you kill, you cannot kill your successor\'\'\'\' - Seneca to Nero - Dio 62
\'\'\'\'There is no way of correcting wrongdoing in those who think that the height of virtue consists in the execution of their will\'\'\'\' - Ammianus Marcellinus 27.7.9
Moderator
\'\'\'\'No matter how many you kill, you cannot kill your successor\'\'\'\' - Seneca to Nero - Dio 62
\'\'\'\'There is no way of correcting wrongdoing in those who think that the height of virtue consists in the execution of their will\'\'\'\' - Ammianus Marcellinus 27.7.9
