It\'s all Greek to me (Makedonians included) ...

[Ghostmojo]

In the 6th century the Persians described the tribute paying people of this area as Greeks (and that could only be the Makedonians - pre Darios/Xerxes) ... 'yauna takabara'.

In 6th century BC there were a number of Greek colonies on the Macedonian and Thracian coast, which were settled in 'non-Temenid' initiatives. With all that, 'yauna' is sometimes argued it was an umbrella term for populations in the western Asia Minor and Balkans, Greeks and non-Greeks alike.

Yes Rumo, I do recognise that fact, and was generalising to some extent. After all, a great many curious Greeks in the Chalkidiki region would have had to observe the Persian carving of a canal though one of the prongs of that peninsula. There were single-poleis Greek colonies virtually everywhere around the Mediterranean/Euxine basins. It's always a problem with catch-all phrases in all respects - arguably the Persians not specifying if they meant individual or collected Greek communities within Thrakian domains etc.; a larger regional ethnos like the Makedonians; or the more embracing umbrella term you suggest. But the term meaning 'Greeks wearing the hat' is thought to refer to the kausia hat which was distinctive to the Makedones.

Again, Athenian (and other states) snobbery may well have had a hand in this view of these Macedonians as "outsiders".

I think also perhaps just the general established way of life up until Philip started to change the Makedonian state might account for this. It seems intially the Makedones were largely transhumant pastoralists, later working the land and managing the forests - lifestyles more in common with their immediate northern rather than more distant southern neighbours. N.G.L. Hammond is insistent that the Makedonians had no alien or subject peoples within their territories. Unlike Athens or Corinth they had no serious interest in maritime commerce and were content within their own small cities and lands until the time of serious expansion. Thereafter of course, they acquired territory populated by Illyrian, Paionian, Thrakian and Phrygian peoples and of course not only the physical presence of non-Greeks, but also their languages would have had an effect upon the Makedonian speech forms - loan words most noticeably entering the fray.

I think the evolution of Makedon (into Makedonia) and its people might be considered a form of alternate or parallel development. Largely Greeks yes, but taking a differing course from the city-states for a variety of reasons, geographic, social, economic, cultural and historical. They are far from alone in this with Epeiros shadowing the Makedonian march to a large degree, but also to a lesser extent regions like Thessaly and Aitolia. The differing lifestyle; more conservative approach to political development; adherence to more archaic forms of rule etc. created a people who would have seemed very alien to the average Athenian or Corinthian. However, they would have seemed less so to the average Epeirote or Thessalian. Culture, politics, commerce and science moved quicker in some of the city states which would have made the more rural, federated areas seem very backward. Add to that the regional dialetical differences of Makedonian Greek as a language, with its absorption of foreign words and phrases resulting in Makedonisti, then it's no hard to see why the more sophisticated urban Greeks saw them as peasants.

One thing that has always intrigued me is the lack of empathy and affinity between the Lakedaimonians and the Makedonians. Apart from the brief period of Alexander I and the schemings of Brasidas - the bulk of recorded history sees these two (Dorian) powers at each others throats. Perhaps I should not be surprised because of the running wounds that existed between (Dorian) Sparta and (Dorian) Argos; but they had clear overlapping territorial issues. However, the two 'royal' regions - far north and far south - did not.

PS - actually, since posting this it occurs to me that the Temenids having originated from Peloponnesian Argos (despite their mutual Dorian ethnos) may well have taken their inate dislike of the Spartans with them, when they emigrated north. The period during which they did this was roughly around the time Sparta and Argos were first at odds with each other (I think)...