Is the Short Sword and Shield Overrated?

[rrgg]

We're talking about the Romans in the period of the short sword, not generally, surely?

Generally a spear, sometimes pikes or other polearms, occasionally you might get specialists armed with two handed axes or greatswords. Bows, slings, or javelins (considering the pilum not a pure javelin here) would be the primary weapons of support or skirmish troops.

In a list of cultures which used the short sword as their primary weapon Rome is a tad lonely.

Your point with these obvious statments, which don't require explaining? :?
I don't see the need to fluff up the argument here. The use of the pilum is well known to all themembers here, including myself, and also the use of the gladius.

Sorry, my intention was to point out why the idea of a heavy javelin replacing the spear was popular (far more reach than even the longest spear). If the Romans didn't have the pilum they would still be using hoplite spears.

You still haven't convinced me the empire was created by anything other than a combination of the heavy and light pilum(Javalin not a spear) and the short sword. It may have been maintained for the rest of its period by the changing patterns of sword use, but still, it was built with the short sword.

A spear usually has a leaf shaped blade, and while there are some javalin types that also have a different variety of spear heas, the pilum was first and for most a javalin.

nite nite all! :mrgreen:

A wider leaf blade can do more damage, but the greater surface area means less penetration. Both types of heads have been used on both javelins and spears, particularly the later polearms as armor improved.
The main reason I consider the pilum a compromise between a javelin and a spear is its length. It is true that the pilum saw a lot of variation, some were shorter, some were weighted, some were made to break on impact -these ones were probably made primarily for throwing. But without those things there isn't much reason for a javelin to be made 2 meters long (they also don't need butt-spikes, but that might just be the replicas), and if it is 2 meters long it can easily be used as an armor-piercing infantry spear.