01-29-2012, 01:18 AM
I wish I knew Latin... anyways, maybe these extracts from Caesar's work can be used as further food for thought?
"Hoc casu aquila conservatur omnibus primae cohortis centurionibus interfectis praeter principem priorem." De Bello Civili 3.64
"Quos ille postea magno in honore habuit; centuriones in priores ordines, equites Romanos in tribunicium restituit honorem." De Bello Civili 1.77
"Deinde reliquae legiones cum tribunis militum et primorum ordinum centurionibus egerunt uti Caesari satis facerent" De Bello Gallico 1.41
"Lucius Aurunculeius compluresque tribuni militum et primorum ordinum centuriones nihil temere agendum neque ex hibernis iniussu Caesaris discedendum existimabant:" De Bello Gallico 5.28
"Sabinus quos in praesentia tribunos militum circum se habebat et primorum ordinum centuriones se sequi iubet et" DBG 5.37
"Erant in ea legione fortissimi viri, centuriones, qui primis ordinibus appropinquarent, Titus Pullo et Lucius Vorenus." DBG, 5.44
"Ex eis centurio legionis xiv 'pro tuo' inquit 'summo beneficio Scipio, tibi gratias ago" De Bello Africo, ch.45
I just singled out certain quotes that included words I thought were interesting. As for the word "ordo", in Byzantine works, as an "ordinos" we can often see it mean "rank". I give here two examples :
(Anonyma Tactica Byzantina, Sylloge tacticorum, ch.32, p.1 l.3 “εἶχε δὲ ὀρδίνους τὸ τάγμα δεκαέξ• ὁ δὲ ὄρδινος ἐξ ἀνδρῶν ἦν διακοσίων πεντηκονταέξ.“
- each tagma had 16 ranks, each rank 256 men -
Nicephorus Uranus Tact., Rhet. et Hagiogr., Tactica (capita 56–65), ch.56, p.5, l.5 “ἐχέτω δὲ μία ἑκάστη ἑπτὰ ὀρδίνους εἰς μῆκος ἀπὸ ἑκατὸν ἀνδρῶν.”)
- Each one had seven ranks, 100 men in length -
I have, nevertheless also encountered it as "file" too, although I would call this an exception :
Nicephorus Uranus Tact,. Rhet. et Hagiogr., Tactica (capita 56-65), ch.56, p.10, l.1 “τότε δὲ ἁρμόζει μίσγειν καὶ τοὺς δύο ὀρδίνους τῶν πεζῶν καὶ ποιεῖν αὐτοὺς ἕνα, οἷον εἷς ὄρδινος ἵνα ἐμβῇ εἰς τὸν ἄλλον καὶ οἱ ἑπτὰ ἄνδρες ἵνα γένωνται δεκατέσσαρες”
- then it is proper to bring the two files of the infantry together and make one out of them, so that one file marches into the other and the 7 men become 14. -
I can see from the Latin quotes above that the "ordinus" was a very important word in Roman military nomenclature and with regard to the office of the cenurion. What does it exactly mean? Can it be a centuria as Duncan has suggested? A whole line? A rank? Would a centuria fight in single rank (with the other centurias of a cohort arrayed behind it), so that it would be synonymous to "rank"? What are your thoughts guys?
"Hoc casu aquila conservatur omnibus primae cohortis centurionibus interfectis praeter principem priorem." De Bello Civili 3.64
"Quos ille postea magno in honore habuit; centuriones in priores ordines, equites Romanos in tribunicium restituit honorem." De Bello Civili 1.77
"Deinde reliquae legiones cum tribunis militum et primorum ordinum centurionibus egerunt uti Caesari satis facerent" De Bello Gallico 1.41
"Lucius Aurunculeius compluresque tribuni militum et primorum ordinum centuriones nihil temere agendum neque ex hibernis iniussu Caesaris discedendum existimabant:" De Bello Gallico 5.28
"Sabinus quos in praesentia tribunos militum circum se habebat et primorum ordinum centuriones se sequi iubet et" DBG 5.37
"Erant in ea legione fortissimi viri, centuriones, qui primis ordinibus appropinquarent, Titus Pullo et Lucius Vorenus." DBG, 5.44
"Ex eis centurio legionis xiv 'pro tuo' inquit 'summo beneficio Scipio, tibi gratias ago" De Bello Africo, ch.45
I just singled out certain quotes that included words I thought were interesting. As for the word "ordo", in Byzantine works, as an "ordinos" we can often see it mean "rank". I give here two examples :
(Anonyma Tactica Byzantina, Sylloge tacticorum, ch.32, p.1 l.3 “εἶχε δὲ ὀρδίνους τὸ τάγμα δεκαέξ• ὁ δὲ ὄρδινος ἐξ ἀνδρῶν ἦν διακοσίων πεντηκονταέξ.“
- each tagma had 16 ranks, each rank 256 men -
Nicephorus Uranus Tact., Rhet. et Hagiogr., Tactica (capita 56–65), ch.56, p.5, l.5 “ἐχέτω δὲ μία ἑκάστη ἑπτὰ ὀρδίνους εἰς μῆκος ἀπὸ ἑκατὸν ἀνδρῶν.”)
- Each one had seven ranks, 100 men in length -
I have, nevertheless also encountered it as "file" too, although I would call this an exception :
Nicephorus Uranus Tact,. Rhet. et Hagiogr., Tactica (capita 56-65), ch.56, p.10, l.1 “τότε δὲ ἁρμόζει μίσγειν καὶ τοὺς δύο ὀρδίνους τῶν πεζῶν καὶ ποιεῖν αὐτοὺς ἕνα, οἷον εἷς ὄρδινος ἵνα ἐμβῇ εἰς τὸν ἄλλον καὶ οἱ ἑπτὰ ἄνδρες ἵνα γένωνται δεκατέσσαρες”
- then it is proper to bring the two files of the infantry together and make one out of them, so that one file marches into the other and the 7 men become 14. -
I can see from the Latin quotes above that the "ordinus" was a very important word in Roman military nomenclature and with regard to the office of the cenurion. What does it exactly mean? Can it be a centuria as Duncan has suggested? A whole line? A rank? Would a centuria fight in single rank (with the other centurias of a cohort arrayed behind it), so that it would be synonymous to "rank"? What are your thoughts guys?
